Aggression on walks

[aimee]

When I take my dog out on walks she freaks out non-stop. She's absolutely terrible with other dogs and bikes. A lot of times she even barks at people just walking or jogging. I have no idea how I'm supposed to react to this. Tell her no? Ignore her? I just bought a choke chain in hopes that when she strained at her leash trying to get at things she would back off because she's choking herself, but it seems to have done no good. Actually, it just makes her sound even more vicious because she's choking herself and barking. I know I'm not supposed to tense up, and I don't, but I have to at least grab lower on the leash so she can't get to them. I've tried talking to her in a calm voice when we approach bikes/dogs, I've tried an excited happy voice, I've tried giving her treats as a distraction, I've tried acting like nothing was different, I've tried entire walks holding her on a short leash so there really was no change at all when we approached someone, and it's exactly the same thing every time.

The strange thing is, it's only when we're on walks. A friend she'd never met came over, walked in the house without knocking, ran straight for the dog(before I'd even said hello) and gave her a hug and she was fine. I can take her to pet stores and she'll be completely fine around people and tense up around other dogs but be more or less ok.

I have no idea what to do. There's no chance I can afford training, but I'm often frustrated to the point of tears when we get home from walks. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[tftmom]

Have you done any obedience training? This makes a big difference. I had a Bouvier who was dog aggressive. He had been through obedience training and was fine if the dogs were leashed and under control but if we walked by a fence or there was a dog loose he went off. Making obedience turns didn't work because my dog outweighed me so turns were ineffective. A trainer showed me how to make a "pacifier" a piece of garden hose about a foot long with about a 4" piece of wooden dowel in one end. I would bring that down across his nose and then make a corrective turn. This worked for my dog but then, he was obedience trained.
I am so grateful that you are keeping the dog under control. Three weeks ago my Toy Fox Terrier was killed by another dog while we were out walking. The attacking dog slipped out of its collar.
Hopefully there are some trainers in the forum who can give you some other ideas on how to address your dogs behavior. What works for one dog will not necessarily work for another.

[DenverShiloh]

You might also want to view some of the information on Cesar Milan's web site. He deals with things like that all the time. He has a TV show, a new book and a video. I really like his approach to dog training and problem behaviors.

[Canis Humanis]

You might also want to view some of the information on Cesar Milan's web site. He deals with things like that all the time. He has a TV show, a new book and a video. I really like his approach to dog training and problem behaviors.

Ditto! ;)

Start watching his show, and using his principles. Save the treats for structured training sessions. They won't do you much good right now.

[aimee]

I haven't taken her to any sort of training. I also don't have cable, so I can't watch the show, I am looking around on the internet for things he's written that may help me though, thanks for that. I'd love to be able to take her to obedience classes (or have cable for that matter, lol) but there's seriously no way I have money to do that. I was selling what I could on ebay to make money for it, but in the end I'm still living paycheck to paycheck so taking her is unfortunately out of the question. =/ So anything anyone can suggest that's free would be fantastic. Or if there's some incredible book out there I can check it out at the library, or possibly even buy it if they don't have it. Thanks for the help. :)

[DenverShiloh]

What kind of dog do you have? I have found it helpful to look up specific breed information as well as general information on my dog. Even if it's a mixed breed, you can look up the different mixes that make your dog unique.

[WolfRyder]

If I recall correctly, a lot of dogs are "agressive" on leash because they feel like they can't get away from the oncoming dog. Also, it may be a socialization issue and never having learned how to behave around other dogs. There are a lot of possibilities.

I agree with DenverShiloh, what breed dog is this? How large/small?

[seraphicia]

My LIFESAVER is the gentle leader head collar!!! Choke chains i found can really increase a problem like aggression as they associate being choked or 'corrected' by the chain, with the other dog or people out on the walk. My shepherd had and is still working on her dog anxiety which turned into aggression, and having her on a gentle leader makes her calmer, and easier to control, and since i always know right where her head is(six inches from my hand), I no longer have a fear that sometime while I'm not paying close enough attention, she'll whip around and try to nail some other dog or get into a fight. She had and is getting over a newly developed fear of people too, and the gentle leader has been magnificent at helping with that. Choke chains are typically not used correctly and can lead to problems with dogs' trachea collapsing, and don't really seem to help with control over where you're being pulled to, with a large dog. I HIGHLY suggest for your piece of mind and hers, you get a gentle leader, its humane and a wonderful training tool too. It offers my shepherd some stability no matter where we're going, and she's like another dog now that she wears that out and about around town. They can be bought for around 15-20 dollars on ebay or petsmart, more at petco here atleast. Honestly they can be the best thing you ever buy, just thoroughly read the instructions, ease it onto the dog, its roots are in basic dog language, and if fitted properly, go right to the problem. Its also easier to teach heel. Really I give Gentle leaders an A+!!

[DiggityDogs]

IMO, Gentle leader=bandaid. Depending on the severity of the aggression it may not even help. I've seen a german shepherd drag it's owner over to an aussie when it was on the gentle leader, and then proceed to bite the aussie on the back. Plus, when the gentle leader comes off, you lose the control.
'choke' chains, when used properly, can and will solve the problem rather quickly, again depending on the severity. It's more a matter of when to correct, not how. Most people wait until the dog is in a full blown spaz attack to start correcting, and that's way too late. The correction should happen when you see your dog building up- when his ears prick, or he 'zones in' on a dog in the distance. It must be stopped then, before it really starts. The correction will only make the behavior worse once it's been allowed to get out of hand. I've found that most owners are afraid to correct their dog firmly enough UP FRONT, and the problem continues to worsen with time because the dog is willing to put up with a light correction to satisfy his urge to go after the other dog.

A good book for you to check out- Cesar's Way, by Cesar Millan, the dog whisperer. I got it for $15 on amazon.

Good luck...

[opokki]

Or if there's some incredible book out there I can check it out at the library, or possibly even buy it if they don't have it. Thanks for the help. :)

"Feisty Fido" and "The Cautious Canine" by Patricia McConnell. These booklets cost around $7.00 and I think you will find them extremely helpful.

Another good one is "Dogs are From Neptune" by Jean Donaldson. Its a questions and answers book but its loaded with great advice on various problems.

[aimee]

Thanks so much for all your help. I'll look into those books for sure. So far as the breed... I don't know! :o The humane society said she was a Lab mix, but I don't think so... I've asked around, including at the vet/ groomers at the local pet store and I've gotten a lot of different answers, but a pit bull/ collie mix seems to be the most common answer. Here are a couple pictures:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/rainydaze/DSCN1343.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v634/rainydaze/patti.jpg

She's about 35-40 pounds.

[seraphicia]

Aw he is just a cutie! At his size I'd think depending on your own size that with the right training tool (I'd as said suggest a gentle leader to tackle the problem quickley and work him up to a normal collar) should help loads. A gentle leader can be used with corrections as well, and gentler and easier to administer ones that still are seen as forceful to the dog, and make sense to him as they use regular canine language, a mothers base of skulll correction and a pack leaders mussle correction. Also, halti head collars can work for biters, as they actually close the mussle, preventing them from opening their mouth and biting. If an owner is assertive enough in a situation to either distract the dog, or hold a dog firmly(correctly within a foot of the dogs head on leash, rather than further back which gives a dog more freedom) for prevention then theu work wonders . Choke chains as they are called, do just that, choke, and are often used improperly, as i said. Yes some dogs learn to listen to choke corrections, but many dogs are so used to recieving them incorrectly that they don't associate them with being corrected. Using them 'properly' even can still very well bring assosiation with their target to the painful squeeze on their neck, rather than their behaivor. I've seen more dogs become aggressive on a choke chain, than a gentle leader for sure, and beable to have enough ground on their person, to worrsen the situation. An agressive dog can more easily drag a person by a choke chain or regular collar, while a gentle leader can be used to better aviod a situation and work a dog up to the situation he fears or becomes aggressive in, without pulling your arm out of socket and damaging your dogs neck. Also, aggressive dogs tend to be nervous, ansy, and scattered at all of the things going on around them, and too distracted from the start if pushed into a situation like a walk, to outright understand that a choke correction means no. Particularly if a dog doesn't associate no(verbal) with choke or even gentle leader correctoin, then no matter the circumstance if a choke collar or gentle leader isn't on them at the time when they're getting aggressive, then they won't listen, even with a choke chain. I'd suggest working obedience, not necessarily at a class, as thats not where the problem is, but rather out on the walks. Even if a walk is shorter, say only around the block, after having taught the meaning of no and sit confidently, working on heel can help drastically and y doing something right and be praised for it out on the walks he'll give his attention from the distractions to you. Just keep at it and don't get too frustrated. Clear signals mean success.

[DiggityDogs]

Yes some dogs learn to listen to choke corrections, but many dogs are so used to recieving them incorrectly that they don't associate them with being corrected.

Once they begin receiving the proper correction this problem goes away.


[QUOTE=seraphicia] while a gentle leader can be used to better aviod a situation and work a dog up to the situation he fears or becomes aggressive in, without pulling your arm out of socket and damaging your dogs neck.


This is completely untrue- I have heard of many dogs suffering neck and spinal injuries as a direct result of struggling against a gentle leader or being corrected using a gentle leader, as was earlier recommended. There are situations where I recommend the gentle leader. Aggression is NEVER one of them.

Also, aggressive dogs tend to be nervous, ansy, and scattered at all of the things going on around them, and too distracted from the start if pushed into a situation like a walk, to outright understand that a choke correction means no.

If this is the case then they're not going to understand a correction regardless of what tool you use. They don't automatically understand what 'no' means, no matter what collar you use.


I would strongly suggest putting him on a regular collar, walking him at the park, and start at a distance from the other dogs. Have him do sits and downs, and gradually work your way up closer to where the other dogs are. If he tries to start getting fired up- if you notice him with ears pricked, focused on another dog, give him a sharp tug and release, with 'no', and go right back to working on obedience. Don't let him think that those other dogs mean anything to you- if you appear to be focused on the obedience and not the other dogs after a few tries this should help. Remember to start at a distance and work your way closer so you're not shoving him into a situation where you're unable to control him....

[seraphicia]

It is a good idea to first just try a regular collar and work him up to it(as you'd need to do with any collar).The trainer i work with suggested that I use a gentle leader with my shepherd who had severe anxiety towards people and other dogs outside of the home which turned into aggression which seemed hard to conquer before the gentle leader, so in the case that a normal collar doesn't give you enough control even at first at a distance, i'd suggest that. If wearing a gentle leader properly and being handled right, a dog is unable to lunge if another dog comes towards him before he's been eased into the situation. If a dog is on a gentle leader and being gradually eased up to being closer to being around dogs and people and not thrust into a situation, than a gentle leader is a great tool. I oppose choke chains because they have no end point, they get to the point of practically popping off a dog's head almost, and strangling them because the chains aren't positioned up on the neck at the base of the skull where they would be effective, but rather fall to half way down the neck where they're against strong muscle and delicate trachea. For the same effect of choke chains in a more sensical and humane tool I'd get a martingale collar which does have a stopping point. While a regular collar needs to always remain on a dog to bear tags and incase of emergency, other colars including chains especially should NEVER be left on the dog and are more of a hazzard in the situation of a dog breaking from the leash(or pullling it from your hands) and getting into a fight. The chain is harder to grasp and so its harder to pull the dog away or off of the target. A martingale still has the same unpleasant effect that choke collars seek, but is better on hands and for dogs with the same effect minus the head popping off problem. Though still unsafe to keep on a dog while unsupervised or offleash, especially around other dogs, a martingale is not as likely to get caught up on something as the ringlets of a choke chain would, and in the event that it got caught on a fence or something, it wouldn't strangle the dog trying to wiggle free.

[eagle12167]

denver is part pitbull, pitbulls do not respond to conventional training. i have three two mix one full. these are known as aggressive dogs, mainly media hype, but they are very protective. my female (full pit) when she is on the chain or leash she is extremely agressive, when she is off she's the sweetest thing on four feet.
what i would do is introduce her to the other people that she is barking at and let her know that they are not going to attack you or her. if you are worried that she might bite then by all means, use a muzzle.
now this is not a behavior that i would personally detour. to each thier own.

[emjay]

[QUOTE=DiggityDogs]IMO, Gentle leader=bandaid. Depending on the severity of the aggression it may not even help. Plus, when the gentle leader comes off, you lose the control.


This may well be the case, but i have not found it to be so (keeping in mind that agression has never been a problem for Isis, just pulling on the lead and generally thinking she runs the show).

i have used the gentle leader for 3 days now and it works wonders. All dogs are different, but she generally acts better as a result of using the collar, regardless of whether or not she is wearing it. she doesn't pull or lunge much anymore and when she does, just taking out the collar and showing it to her will cause her to shape up. it's wierd.

when she has it on she sticks next to me and sits immediately when we stop. all that is needed is a slight tug, about as strong as stratching, or that index finger 'come here' motion you would make to a friend. as soon as you signal to sit, or come this way, or heel and they respond, just release the pressure. it is super humane. it is more of a communication device than a behavior modifier.

as for aggression, get her to sit when another dog is approaching and do the same when a bike comes near. the alpha reinforcement of you as leader as a result of using the leader may cause her to have less fear aggression.

try the gentle leader. you will see results immediately. it's kinda spooky.:)

[DiggityDogs]

I can tell you that I have used the gentle leader on MANY dogs, as I once worked as a trainer for a chain pet store and we were not allowed to use choke chains or pinch collars. It worked that way on a small percentage of dogs- you are lucky. I recommend it on a rare occasion, but very rare. I don't think having used it for 3 days on 1 dog makes you an expert. Also- keeping in mind that aggression has not been a problem for YOU- it IS a problem for the original poster, which is why I advised against a gentle leader.

[Dolittle's]

For what it's worth I'm a dog trainer. I've helped many people with dogs that are aggressive to other dogs on leash. I recommend using the Gentle Leaders for walking because you have much more control over the dog from lunging. I am also a positive trainer. Which mean's I don't believe in choke chains or pinch collars. I believe you can teach a dog to do what you want in a positive gentle way verses using equipment that will hurt the dog like a choke chain or pinch collar.

You will get a lot of advice from people and you have to go with your gut instinct on what you feel is right for you and your dog. No one-dog trainer is the same and we all have different opinions.

I highly recommend Feisty Fido by Patricia B. McConnell. It's a great book and has exercises to help you with the aggression on leash. I've had great success with these kinds of problems. Here is a link to purchase the book.

http://www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com/books-retail.php

If a Gentle Leader is put on right it's very hard for the dog to get it off. So you could also have the store you buy it from help you put it on and make sure it doesn't come off. With a little bit of time and patients you should be able to solve the problem.

Good Luck
Laura

[dogma]

When a dog or person approaches you on your walks have your dog sit and then just pet and praise until the passer-by has passed by. Have a special toy or treat to distract them with. The point is for the dog attention to be on YOU not on what is happening around them. They dont actually get the treat until they are being quiet and attentive but you can use it to get their attention on you (works especially well on food oriented dogs). You can make arrangements to meet up with a friend on a bike or walking another dog so that you can practice sitting quietly while they move past you. If your dog is acting aggressively towards them you might want to get a halti or other headcollar (or even a muzzle if the dog tolerates wearing one) better safe than sorry. By far the best thing to do is to attend dog training classes. The dog will be in a controlled situation with other animals who are being similarly controlled. Practice, practice, practice, and practice some more.

[SPARTAN1266]

The dog is dominant over you, not the other way around like it should be...the peeps that said watch Ceasar Milan's show are right on. The fastest way you are going to understand how to fix the problem is by seeing how he handles agressive behavior in dogs, and almost 100% of the time the problem is that the dog does not recognize the human as the pack leader. He also has a DVD out if you don't have cable. It would take a very long post to try and explain what he does and I probably wouldn't be able to do it very well. Maybe you have a friend that has cable?? I hope this helps. "Stay calm and assertive."