What food do you use?

[Patch O' Pits]

I use Timber wolf Organics http://www.timberwolforganics.com/
It is a gret food and they love it.
Yet, I'm thinking about switching to RAW

[StarWhisper]

My pets are all on a raw diet. After seeing the difference I would never go back to kibble.

[Evanescence]

I feed Eukanuba, but I'm curious about the all raw diet...what difference do you see? and how expensive is it to feed? -- I keep thinking about it, but am scared to include bones in their diets as once I fed raw bones to my Alex boy as a pup, an it ruined him for like 2-3 days...

Thanks!

[33MTA3]

I use Nature's Variety with Merrick canned.

[LauriS]

I also feed a raw diet - going on 8 years now. I feed two German Shepherds, a Cocker Spaniel, a Corgi mix and a Husky mix.

Cost will vary greatly based on your location and your buying power. We have two full-sized freezers that are soley for the dogs food. That way I can buy in bulk and get the best prices (not to mention free delivery!). For example, I just picked up 120 pounds of turkey gizzards for $.25 per pound. That a total of $30 for roughly 55 days worth of dinners for my guys.

The majority of my stuff runs under $1 per pound - closer to $.50/lb. I feed chicken parts (back, necks, legs, thighs, wings), turkey necks, beef heart and liver, lamb necks and breast, fish, rabbit, ostrich, goat, green tripe, deer ... whatever I can get my hands on! Variety is the key to a good raw diet.

The differences I see: very little shedding (and from dogs fondly called German Shedders), decrease in my Cockers seizures, a 13.5 yr old girl with arthritis and Spondylosis that still runs and plays (and NO drugs), shiney coats, very small stools (that's don't smell much at all), increase energy, decreased doggy smell.

[tresorkennels]

I feed Chicken Soup for the Dog lovers soul. It is quality food without the crazy price. plus the dogs loove it!

[LoveYouVeryMutts!]

i feed my furries Nature's Variety Prairie dry kibble + their raw Venison patties.

treats are usually : Merrick Sgt. Saddle bones, Merrick's Flossies, Solid Gold Lamb Liver treats...etc :)

[Courtney&Henry]

Henry was on Chicken Soup dog food but it seemed to produce a lot of waste (i'm sure you follow). He is now on Innova and doing extremly well.

Lucy is being fed science diet. Not my idea of a good food but she has been fed it all of her life. She is allergic to carrots so it limits the types of food to try for her. My boyfriend is resistant to change her to another natural brand I had found that is free of carrots (I can't remember the name at the moment). It's his dog so I just left it at that :rolleyes:

[Patch O' Pits]

I feed Eukanuba, but I'm curious about the all raw diet...what difference do you see? and how expensive is it to feed? -- I keep thinking about it, but am scared to include bones in their diets as once I fed raw bones to my Alex boy as a pup, an it ruined him for like 2-3 days...

Thanks!

Eukanuba is on Whole dog journals worst foods list. They ahev good marketing ploys but the food itself isn't good IMO.

There are a ton of better and pretty great kibbles oput there. I'll post some more options later today

As a rule stay away from foods w/ corn, wheat, soy, food coloring, BHA, foods that are mostly grains or do not have a good meat source as the first ingred.

[ACDlover]

its the most balanced fair priced dog food on the market that i can find. good protein dogs need that. doesnt compare to a raw diet though.

[Patch O' Pits]

its the most balanced fair priced dog food on the market that i can find. good protein dogs need that. doesnt compare to a raw diet though.
Not a food I would personally recommend . A good eat source should be the first ingredient and not a filler like corn. I but in bold the reasons I do not like this food. There is actually no real meat source until way into the ingred. list with beef...by-products don't count as a good meat source in my book. I do not know what some of the ingredients are and didn't have time to look the m up.

Ground yellow corn, chicken by-product meal, corn gluten meal, whole wheat flour, beef tallow preserved with mixed-tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), rice flour, beef, soy flour, sugar, sorbitol, tricalcium phosphate, water, animal digest, salt, phosphoric acid, potassium chloride, dicalcium phosphate, sorbic acid (a preservative), L-Lysine monohydrochloride, dried peas, dried carrots, calcium carbonate, calcium propionate (a preservative), choline chloride, vitamin supplements (E, A, B-12, D-3), added color (Yellow 5, Red 40, Yellow 6, Blue 2), DL-Methionine, zinc sulfate, glyceryl monostearate, ferrous sulfate, niacin, manganese sulfate, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin supplement, biotin, thiamine mononitrate, garlic oil, copper sulfate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, folic acid, menadione sodium bisulfite complex (source of Vitamin K activity), calcium iodate, sodium selenite.
F-4090

A food that costs a little more at the counter will actually save you in the long run menaing they will eat less of it. poop less and be healthier

Some decently priced healthier alternatives are
wellness
premium edge
chicken soup for the dog lover's soul

Their are others even better but those are priced pretty well.


I hope that helps

[crestie_rsq]

I feed a combination of home cooked & Natural Balance sweet potato/fish. I had to switch to a totally grain free diet after Ricky was diagnosed with epilepsy, and Bandit also has serious tummy sensitivities (chicken is his worst offender). Bandit and Ricky get boiled ground beef with the NB mixed in and a dollop of no-fat yogurt. However, because of the meds Ricky is on for his epilepsy the majority of his food is steamed fresh veggies such as zucchini, yelllow squash, sweet potato, green beans, cauliflower, etc. Pixie and Harry get the NB with a spoonful of one of the many Merrick canned foods & steamed veggies mixed in. All get fish oil capsules and probiotic, as well as Missing Link daily (except Ricky doesn't get the Missing Link).

[fostermum]

I feed Innova EVO, and doubt I will ever switch to any other brand! I'm constantly getting compliments and my dogs' coats and their muscle tone. It's a grain free food, and now that my dogs are on it the non-food-obsessed 2 will not eat any other crap.
I also supplement with raw 'treats' occasionally ;)

[HOHAMBULLS]

A raw diet is by far the best option. But it can be costly compared to traditional dry kibble prices.

[Patch O' Pits]

A raw diet is by far the best option. But it can be costly compared to traditional dry kibble prices.

Actually, all those I know that feed Raw spend alot less than I do. You may want to try to find a good butcher in your area who will give you deals buying things in bulk that you can freeze for later. That is what they do.

[dreamer]

doesn't compare to a natural diet or anything NOT made with waste of the human fod ins\dustry and chock ful of allergens.
TRy Natura products, nature's varietie's products, go natural - in canada holistic blend, don't need to spend more, or fed raw, just be informed....

[DiggityDogs]

Feeding something like Purina Beneful would be like eating McDonalds every day of your life. It's filled with salt and sugar and fat, not to mention grains and preservatives that are horrible for your dog, especially if he shows any signs of allergies.
In general, the shorter the ingredient list the better. Long ingredient lists tend to have a lot of added chemical preservatives and dyes, as well as 'sprayed on flavorings' and other wierd ingredients. My number one thing to stay away from in my book is 'rendered meat' since you have no clue as to what type of meat, where it came from, or how it died. There are several single carb/single protein source foods that are really good, i think natures variety, eagle pack, and wellness each carry some form of a 1/1 diet.
I like wellness, but I'm also a big fan of Eagle Pack. Natures variety, solid gold, canidae, and innova all top out my list of faves. I think if you're looking price wise, though, eagle pack and wellness are probably the best bets. At about $1 per pound, give or take a few cents, they're a pretty good deal for what they offer. And, as one of the posts mentioned earlier, the do eat less because they're able to absorb more of the food, so they also poop less. Plus you get all of the benefits of the good coats, muscle tone, and overall health. I have clients who use the probiotics and suppliments as well, My guys get kelp tabs and fish oil caps with their meals. They love the fish oil caps so much they eat them like treats.
Of course none of this compares to a raw diet, but I think it's a time issue for me. I like the convenience of having a good packaged dog food instead of having to prepare meals for the dogs- I don't even have time to prepare food for myself sometimes!!

[HOHAMBULLS]

I was refering to the BARF diet, do a search if you are not familiar. I use Nutro products and will continue to do so. They have excellent programs for breeders/owners who use their kibble. We will be hunting Wild Boar this spring, and if we bag a big one well, it'll be bacon and pork chops for everyone for awhile. This is a shot of Yukon training. NO ANIMALS WERE HURT! THIS WAS STRICTLY TRAINING.
http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/18428/user/169172/268050.jpg

[opokki]

I use Timberwolf Organics on both of my dogs. I've been very happy with this food. :)

[Cassiepeia]

I use an Australian brand called 'Nature's Gift' (canned...because my old boy has no teeth lol). Great food. It's got nothing artificial in it at all. My guy loves it and I'll never go back to the rubbish he had before.

But it doesn't compare to a raw diet, of course. :)

Cass.

[pbrdog]

Luke gets Flint River Ranch Trout and Potato nuggets. I add a couple spoonfulls of canned pink salmon to his evening feedind too. As a treat in the afternoon, sometimes a couple spoonfulls of plain yogurt.

[ShowyChinook]

I feed all my dogs Diamond Lamb and Rice formula, but am thinking of switiching to Evo; Innova. The dogs are doing well on Diamond although my mom found out the harsh way to stick to the feeding guidlines, because she was feeding her dog to much and his stool was really hard and like a dark black!

[HOHAMBULLS]

hard dark stool=healthy dog. You think otherwise? Loose stool=problems

[redwhitenblue]

i used wellness but will be cahnging to canidae or EVO soon.. not sure which though

[Giny]

My dogs are on Innova Evo and have been for over a year now. They also get raw premade food by Steve's Real Food and once in a while they get a can of Innova, scrambled eggs, boiled rice and burger/chicken.

[redwhitenblue]

hoham... technically that isnt true... my dobes just got over the runs for five months... they had so many damn tests... and well nothing ever came out after we got rid of the bacteria from the raw they were eating... they just got over the runs permenantly after Five months... and for the past three months there has been NOTHING wrong with them... eating food, drinking regualar water, no excessive treats hmmm and had many im talking eight vets stumped at what was wrong then all the sudden they stopped having the runs and have hard stool... it was quite wierd...but that was them however


95% of the time you are right diarrhea means trouble... but there is a few times that nothing is wrong maybe a little sensitive stomach or just cant hold their food lol... but yes if you have diarrhea take them in... always better to be safe than sorry...

[DiggityDogs]

well, a dog's stool should be firm, but not HARD, dark, but not BLACK. Black stool indicates bleeding in the upper GI, often seen with a foreign body or other problem in the stomach. in people, it's a sign of ulcers. It can also signal liver problems. The stool turns black instead of red, because the blood degrades on it's way through the intestines. This DOES NOT happen as a result of over feeding- it could be a sign of a serious problem. And, while it's typically associated with diarrhea, it can be accompanied by constipation instead, depending on the problem. Dogs will not typically get constipated unless there is an underlying problem. So, when you describe it as 'almost black and very hard' make sure you aren't exaggerating.

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/melena-blood-in-stool-in-dogs/page1.aspx

It's an often overlooked condition, since most people think that a dog's stool is supposed to be dark. You might think about having him checked by a vet.

Also- Red, you're right. Diarrhea can sometimes occur without a known cause, and will pass once the dog's system has leveled out. It could be something he ate, or he could just have a stomach bug. I went through it with my boxerHe has a very sensitive stomach, and now my doberman is going through it too! I'm thinking if it keeps up we're going to have to go to the vet- daniel (the dobe) has been having problems for a few days now. the gas is horrible!!!!!!

[ShowyChinook]

hard dark stool=healthy dog. You think otherwise? Loose stool=problems
Black hard dog stool is bad, it means too much iron is in the body.

[vonissk]

I have always fed my dogs ONE and ProPlan and love it. They look good, bright eyes, shiny coats, good muscle tone and they like it. I also make my own treats based on chicken liver and wheat flour.

[PawsNClaws]

Our puppers get Kirkland dog food, they've been on if for almost a month and love it... They get home cooked and canned once a week... We have Can food Wen. and they get cooked when ever in the week we remember to get the meat out:rolleyes: .

[fillyone]

I've been feeding TimberWolf Organics Black Forest and have been very happy with the results.
Then I found out that TWO is manufactured at the same plant as the contaminated Diamond food and I can't support a company that didn't have the correct quality methods in place.

So, I'm switching to Nature's Variety and crossing my fingers!!

[Glenda]

Well I am new at all this. My pup was 7 weeks old when I got her and she was fed Eagle Pack. All she did was throw up (I was given some of the Eagle Pack kibble when I bought her from a friend) and she had diahrrea too. So off to the vet we went and they said it was the food. Although it is a quality brand it is still mediocre to high quality food. So the vet switched her to Medi-Cal Development but she didn't like the kibble at all and feeding her just soft canned food was still causing diahrrea so we switched her kibble to Science Diet for puppies (sorry up here in Canada we don't have half the brands everyone has shared in this thread) and she eats the kibble well. Diahrrea has stopped completely and I feed her 1/2 and 1/2 canned Medi-Cal with cooked oatmeal. She is now 3.6 months old. Her stool is dark brown and solid. She hasn't vomitted anymore. I supplement her diet with cooked and raw vegies, and fruit, fish and rice. Just so that she doesn't get bored at meal time. :p She has a healthy appetite.

[Evanescence]

I'm sort of replying to Patch O' Pits from a while back. I was at a show with my dogs a few weeks ago, and talking with someone who said exactly the samething you did about the Eukanuba being filled with corn. She actually said she'd never seen dogs that look as good as mine who had been fed it their whole lives, but most people don't exercise their dogs as much as I do either :). She had recommended a food called Solid Gold, but the problem is, I live in a relatively small town, and there's no where to purchase a kibble other than the pet store. I looked online, but shipping for bulk dog food is way too outrageous, and I don't have the time to drive to the nearest city (100 miles) and pick some up once a month or so and I don't have the money to buy $200 of it at a time. I'm also a graduate student on a rather tight fixed income, and can't afford more than about $50/month on food. Any suggestions for the best pet-store variety? or are all of them horrible? I saw some people throwing around other names on here, but those aren't really sold anywhere near me either. I went with Eukanuba mainly because of a lack of education and their advertising, and I haven't been disappointed, but if I give my dogs a better food for a comprable price and ease of feeding I'm all for it!

Thanks!

[DiggityDogs]

As far as pet store brands go, I really like Nutro. It's not perfect, but it did well for my dogs for quite a long time. We fairly recently switched to solid gold because it's now available at petco (YAY) where my boyfriend works as a manager so it's convenient and we get a discount. I'm very pleased with it so far- my boxer eats it like it's going out of style, and he's always been a picky eater!

Nutro has a new formula out that I've heard is better, the 'Ultra' holistic formula. That might be easier for you to find. You want to find a food that has no grains, (rice is OK) and has meat or meat meal in the first few ingredients- a lot of the commercial dog foods list corn or wheat in the first 3 and that is b-a-d. NO corn. Hope this helps...

[Rottweilerlvr]

Isabella, my mastiff is on Pro Plan Adult Giant Breed, and Baxter, my rottweiler is on Nutro Adult Large Breed, both are considered quality dog food. I like Nutro better but Isabella gets soft to runny stool with it which is why I kept her on Pro Plan, it has a stool hardening in it...

I tried the raw diet with them, Isabella loved it, and Baxter won't eat raw food, I had to a- season it a little bit and b- cook it slightly for him to even consider eating and then it's no longer "raw", the main thing I noticed and could not stand, was their farts where out of this world... Just aweful... I lasted a week before I started feeding them dry food again..

[WolfRyder]

our oldest, the cocker, started having throwups all the time this past fall. After tests, x-rays, etc, everything came back negative so he was diagnosed with some type of intestinal thing (similar to cronic bowel disorder in humans) and put on Science Diet special prescription diet, which he could keep down well and would eat.

then we got Tino, the Dobe, as a 2 year old rescue. I wanted both dogs to have the same thing, as I had to buy the cocker's food at a vet's. Tino had been on SD too, and I had read a lot about the Nutro Ultra and had even gotten the biscuits for the cocker, which he had no problem keeping down.

So, with the help of a little probiotics sprinkled on their food once a day, they get both the wet and kibble Nutro Ultra. No throwups and the cocker's breath has cleared up too (he has had horrible bad breath for years).

If I didn't feed Ultra, I'd feed the Nature's Balance.

[Kymcole25]

We feed a couple different foods. Some of our little ones require perscription food for certain health problems, which means we have a fridge full of different kinds.

Bleu and Jagger eat perscription EN, wet and dry.
Shelby and Kylie eat pedigree wet, and seniors science diet.
Everyone else eats Chicken soup for the dog lovers soul, adult food.

[CanineEssentials]

I have all of my dogs that I breed on Canine Essentials. I was referred to this by some local doctors and it is awesome. I see more and more results everyday.

You can get more information on this product from

http://equine.tahitiannoni.com/2129631

Let me know if you have any questions about the product itself.

[MelissaCato]

100% BARF !! :eek: And of course treats. :D

[meemoo]

and treats from sitstay.com

[papillon806]

I feed my pup canned EVO in the morning with a Derm Cap, and he gets Royal Canin Special 30 mini for dinner (it's the only dry he will eat and does well on).

[freshmtt]

My two mini Dachshunds get a 50% kibble and 50% raw diet and for the past 8 months they have been on it, they have been doing wonderful!!!!

The morning meal is kibble, either Solid Gold, Natural Balance, Innova, California Natural, Canidae, I just mix it all up and they love the variety,

Their evening meal is raw, either Nature's Variety frozen medallions, or raw from scratch,, raw chicken thighs, beef ribs, pork ribs, pig heart, pig liver, ground beef, raw meaty beef bones.

[racelady02]

I use the Natural Balance Venison & Brown Rice Formula dry and the Wellness Venison & Sweet Potato canned. I have an allergy dog who also happens to be an extremely picky eater.

I found an awesome website for treats. www.petextras.com You can order just one of something to see if your picky eating dog will eat it. They have all kinds of natural, single ingredient stuff.

[Toller_08]

My dogs eat Nutro simply because it's the only thing Winston can eat without throwing up. The vet says his stomach can't handle most foods because he was starved in his previous home for so long. They're doing well on it though, but when I get a purebred Toller I'll be switching her and Tango to preferably raw and if that doesn't work, they'll be fed either Innova EVO or Timber Wolf. The other three are more of my parents' dogs so I will not be switching them.

[seraphicia]

I switched to nature's select once I found out that Nutro (which I'd used for years) was a corporate sponsor of PETLAND!! That was a blow...I'm not one to knowingly or willingly support puppy mills. Nature's select though not the best, is certainly better, and any affiliation with such awful a company as petland...almost anything is better! Plus bought in bulk it's actually cheaper.

[dave]

I feed Life's Abundance available at www.ahealthypetfood.com

[DonnaW]

I use Timber wolf Organics http://www.timberwolforganics.com/
It is a gret food and they love it.
Yet, I'm thinking about switching to RAW

:)
I feed Nutro Ultra all natural kibble to my rotties. I tried the raw diet and my Abby doesn't like it, it gave her the runs too!
Along with a cup of kibble twice a day I've added baby food, fruits included, she loves it!

Donna in Pa.

[bradgriff]

Griff is changing over to Wysong.

[Kaybie's Mom]

Kaybie is on Canidae All Life Stages Formula. She's doing great on it. I was feeding ProPlan until I learned how bad of a food that was. I am going to start rotating Kaybie's food soon too but haven't decided what to rotate it to quite yet.

[firefighters.flame]

our pooches are currently on diamond and doing really well on it. They were on lamaderm, and did great on it, but we cannot afford it anymore. a breeder i respect stands by diamond as a good company, even with the conatmination problem they did have, because they handled it appropriately.

it's still better than purina anyday.

[DoggyMom]

I used to feed my dog Eukaneba, but after about 2 weeks, she would no longer touch it. We switched her out to Science Diet, and that went well for a few months, then she got really picky about eating that also. Now we use Purina Beneful, which we mix with a little bit of water to make it slightly moist. Now our little picky eater gobbles it down like it is going out of style :p

[ClarkFarm]

An idea for those who said they cannot afford a healthier and often times more expensive food is to mix foods... this is what our veterinarian recommended. I do not mean mix the lowest quality in but something like Purina One or ProPlan. It is still considered about mid-grade quality in the overall picture and its inexpensive... makes the good stuff last a bit longer so your dog isn't eating just McDonalds everyday ;) .

[Kaybie's Mom]

An idea for those who said they cannot afford a healthier and often times more expensive food is to mix foods... this is what our veterinarian recommended. I do not mean mix the lowest quality in but something like Purina One or ProPlan. It is still considered about mid-grade quality in the overall picture and its inexpensive... makes the good stuff last a bit longer so your dog isn't eating just McDonalds everyday ;) .

Just a thought. Even though the better quality foods tend to cost a few dollars more per bag, the dogs eat less of it becuase it's not full of fillers. So the bag actually lasts longer than the lower quality food, in turn, making it not more expensive afterall. I used to have Kaybie on ProPlan.....until I learned how poor quality that food is. She is now on Canidae. It is the exact same price as ProPlan and the bag lasts longer, so in reality, the higher quality food ends up being less expensive than the lower quality food.

[ClarkFarm]

I thought that way too... until I got Lucy. She eats more than the "recommended" amount and is in perfect shape. She is an active pup and the vet said to up her feed. She was acting hungry all the time when I fed her only the amount listed on the bag. I know that is what is supposed to generally happen , but in her case it did not. My sister, who is a vet herself, had the same problem with her cat... the recommended food just wasn't enough to keep up with the cat's activity. I know of a case where someone's pet dog was really underweight and in the end it was due to their strict feeding requirements, which just so happened to follow the stated guidelines. So just a warning that such is not always the case and please be careful to make sure your pet really is getting enough to eat.

[Kaybie's Mom]

I thought that way too... until I got Lucy. She eats more than the "recommended" amount and is in perfect shape. She is an active pup and the vet said to up her feed. She was acting hungry all the time when I fed her only the amount listed on the bag. I know that is what is supposed to generally happen , but in her case it did not. My sister, who is a vet herself, had the same problem with her cat... the recommended food just wasn't enough to keep up with the cat's activity. I know of a case where someone's pet dog was really underweight and in the end it was due to their strict feeding requirements, which just so happened to follow the stated guidelines. So just a warning that such is not always the case and please be careful to make sure your pet really is getting enough to eat.

I understand what you are saying. But Kaybie is free fed. Always has been since she was 6.5 weeks old. She eats all she wants whenever she wants. And if anything, she could stand to gain a few pounds. My vet has said she is the picture of perfect health. I get criticized for free feeding but since that is all that Kaybie knows, she doesn't overeat. And even with free feeding, the bag of Canidae lasts much longer than any bag of ProPlan ever did.

[ClarkFarm]

You are lucky to be able to free feed then. I would do that as well if I thought my dogs would not over eat but Lucy would eat everything and the kitchen counters if you let her. My since passed away GSD used to have free feed but she then had to be limited because in her older years, she was getting too heavy though I must say she never had a problem in her younger years with it.
I personally do not like the idea of free feed but thats just me.

I will check out that Canidae brand food though.. wonder if its at the feed store?

[ClarkFarm]

I made no sense... I contradicted myself. I do think if you can do free feed and have no problems, health or behavioral, then its a lucky thing but I guess a part of me still doesnt like that idea.

Ah well, you'll have to excuse me. I got about 2 hours of sleep last night, stayed up with a sick horse, and now Im waiting for the vet to come... said anywhere from an hour to three hours... the horse is not looking good, colic symptoms and nerves are flying high right now and I feel so frustrated but that is not for a dog discussion forum, sigh.

[Kaybie's Mom]

You are lucky to be able to free feed then. I would do that as well if I thought my dogs would not over eat but Lucy would eat everything and the kitchen counters if you let her. My since passed away GSD used to have free feed but she then had to be limited because in her older years, she was getting too heavy though I must say she never had a problem in her younger years with it.
I personally do not like the idea of free feed but thats just me.

I will check out that Canidae brand food though.. wonder if its at the feed store?

To each their own with how to feed their own dog. I do not judge anyone for their methods as we all have our reasons to do it our own way. We all just want our pups to be happy and healthy.

Canidae is starting to be offered at more and more locations as more people are getting into feeding their dogs foods with better quality ingredients and less fillers. I know that of the big chain pet food places, Pet Supplies Plus and Chow Hound now carry Canidae. I do believe that many feed stores carry it or will have it ordered for you on request.

Here is a website that rates most of the dog foods out there and gives reasons for their ratings. Might want to check this out just in case you can't find Canidae. There are other good foods that are comparable to Canidae, such as Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover's Soul.

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/index.php

[ClarkFarm]

I apologize if you feel I was criticizing you. I was not. I am simply in dire need of a distraction right now.

I did digress from the topic and so I will take this opportunity from my own mistake to remind everyone that the topic is what brand of food you choose to feed your dog, not which one is the healthiest or best choice or which method of feeding is optimal.

[Kaybie's Mom]

I apologize if you feel I was criticizing you. I was not. I am simply in dire need of a distraction right now.

I did digress from the topic and so I will take this opportunity from my own mistake to remind everyone that the topic is what brand of food you choose to feed your dog, not which one is the healthiest or best choice or which method of feeding is optimal.

Don't worry, you did not offend me. I know you were not criticizing me. =)

As far as the topic of the post, yes it is to state which food we each feed our dogs, but at the same time, it is to learn from others and see if we could be feeding something better.

[vikia]

I have been feeding my goldens ProPlan for about 15 years. Our first two dogs did very well on it. But 2 months ago we got a rescue golden (about 1 year old) and he could not eat it. He had diarrhea for a week and was throwing up. Otherwise healthy, he was having bouts of colitis. Probably from changing homes (we were his 3rd home - he flunked out of the first two.)

Our vet put him on Hills Prescription (bland) canned for a week and moved him to same in kibble form.

Now he is doing well and I am moving him to Hills for Sensitive Stomach.

So our older golden, is now getting a variety (mixing both - Hills and ProPlan).
He seems pretty happy about it.

They also get Pets Plus dog treats from the treat bar (one a day).

[luv4gsds]

I feed raw.

[Brandi's Mom]

In my way of thinking food for the dog is a personal choice. Some dogs can't tollerate corn or rice. Some will do well on any food including the so called junk food from the grocery store. I feed Nutro Choice lamb and rice kibble and canned. Brandi does well on it. I would prefer to put her on Canidae but it's not available to me where I live so the Nutro is the better choice for me. I could buy it on line but this little girl only eats 2/3 c kibble and 3 tsp canned per day. I can't justify the shipping costs when I can get Nutro locally.

[Uilleam]

My 12 week pup eats dry Iams puppy kibble. But once he starts getting older I'm gonna get him adjusted to beneful. It's great stuff for dogs.

[DiggityDogs]

Beneful is not as great as purina's marketing campaign. They sure make the food LOOK good, but it has a LOT of corn, wheat, by products, all kinds of fillers. If I were you and had to choose between those two brands, I would choose Iams. If you were going to switch I'd recommend something more like solid gold, wellness, timberwolf, natures variety, etc. there's some great info in this thread about the pros and cons of some of these foods.

[Sibe]

Wellness(puppy) brand caused much diarrhea in my pups. When I called the number on the bag, left a message--O response!:mad: Not too impressed with that company. Although the ingredients boast a great dog food and it costs more than enough/ nix to that one for my pups!

Solid gold is quite good. Innova is another very good one. Canidae is what we use. :)

Sure would love to "free feed" these guys but they would stuff themselves sick if we left out the food. My older guy would free feed, take a mouth full of food and bring in the other room on the rug, lay down and leisurly eat. God he was a cutie, still miss him awful:(

[DiggityDogs]

My boxer had excessive- and I do mean EXCESSIVE amounts of gas on wellness, however I have some clients that use it with no complaints. I now feed solid gold, and even though I cringe every time I pay $37.99 for a bag of food, it's definitely well worth it. I've had some clients on canidae, too, and they seem to be pretty happy with it.

[chocolatecoffee]

My three dogs get Merrick; two get the dry with canned mixed in and the other just gets dry (oddly enough, she hates canned food...:p).

[Tori's mom]

Right now everybody but Tori gets Nutro Naturals- she is on an allergy trial and I'm driving an hour and a half to bring back Solid Gold. No where closer has ANYTHING good, I'm harassing all the local pet store/ feed stores to get in some of the better brands!

[Sibe]

The biggest scare is that FDA allows rendered fats from very horrid sources. Has anyone read about that? It is amazing that it is allowed. But guess it is. This is why I have changed from the usual foods mostly pushed on the market and readily available in supermarkets and pet stores. I like to know where they get the ingrediants and how it is processed. Also, there has been some discussion about how the big co.'s have studied results ingredients in unethical ways at the expense of animals health and welfare.:mad:

[wendymillerdesign]

I use Blue Buffalo -- my pooch does well on it and his coat is beautiful.

[Aussie_Dog]

I feed Timberwolf Organics, changing formulas every couple of months. Jake is thriving on it!

[steff]

I have a 4 month old lab and was feeding him Nutro Natural Choice Large Breed Puppy. He seemed to have developed an allergy to it after 2 months on it (irritable bowel syndrome) according to my vet. I switched him to Innova Large Breed Puppy, he's doing better now, and hopefully he'll be ok on this food.

[HerbNurse]

I use Blue Buffalo too for my Shelties. It is a holistic food with no additives or filters. My dogs coats are beautiful. Vet say the dogs are in excellent condition especially their skin and coats.

[SmoothCollieluver]

Ok i'm really lost here. I have been in dogs my whole life but never really studied foods. I have always fed a preium food. Right now my puppy is on science diet large breed puppy. Does anyone have a link to a list of foods or something.

[Marty]

Heres a good site to check your dog food and see how it rates...

http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/

[DoggyMom]

I think that site is a bunch of bull IMO. Seems to be more of a complied list based on opinions more then anything. I believe that a person should feed their pet what they want to feed their pet. I feed Lily Purina Beneful, which is not even on that site at all. Lily is an extremely picky eater, on top of a sensitive stomach, so I feed her what she will eat. The price or the "top quality" of the food doesn't matter much, it's just important to me what my dog will eat. We haven't had any problems on the Beneful. Lily's coat still shines bright, her teeth are in good shape, and best of all, no more sensitive stomach problems :)

[Danegirl2208]

my dogs are fed a raw diet (prey model)

[ClarkFarm]

I mentioned this on another thread but in case you do not read that particular thread, I will note it again.
The raw (BARF) diet has some potentially serious nutritional concerns that need to be monitored to ensure the dog will benefit from such diet.
First is the chance of an iron deficiency, resulting in becoming anemic.
Second is the calcium/phosphorous ratio.
Third, raw fed dogs should have vitamin supplements daily.
They should have annual blood work done as well as consultations with a canine nutritionist every few months.
It should be noted that there is a chance of obstructions and/or tears in the esophagus/intestines/stomach lining from eating bones.

Dogs are not wolves and have been domesticated and evolved over hundreds of years.

The key to a good diet is a balanced diet. Try using dog foods that have clinical studies behind them, such as Nutro. These foods have the needed vitamins already included as well as certain formulas geared towards specific dog types, for example the glucos/joint for giant breeds (typically genetically prone to bone/joint problems).

[BelovedJuggernaut]

I use Nutro or Nutro Max.

I find that it feeds both my GSD and Beagle with the right amounts of just about everything.

When the new puppy comes though, I am thinking about switching to a combination of raw & kibble diet. I have heard many good things about raw diets, some not so good things, and after speaking with my vet, he said that some dogs can display a change, others may not...

So we shall see what happens, if those of you who do feed raw or a combo of raw are out there, PM me with results you see or pros/cons of feeding raw... the more feedback the better!!

[Danegirl2208]

I mentioned this on another thread but in case you do not read that particular thread, I will note it again.
The raw (BARF) diet has some potentially serious nutritional concerns that need to be monitored to ensure the dog will benefit from such diet.
First is the chance of an iron deficiency, resulting in becoming anemic.
Second is the calcium/phosphorous ratio.
Third, raw fed dogs should have vitamin supplements daily.
They should have annual blood work done as well as consultations with a canine nutritionist every few months.
It should be noted that there is a chance of obstructions and/or tears in the esophagus/intestines/stomach lining from eating bones.

Dogs are not wolves and have been domesticated and evolved over hundreds of years.

The key to a good diet is a balanced diet. Try using dog foods that have clinical studies behind them, such as Nutro. These foods have the needed vitamins already included as well as certain formulas geared towards specific dog types, for example the glucos/joint for giant breeds (typically genetically prone to bone/joint problems).

well thank you for sharing your thoughts...but i will never feed kibble again..yes there are risks with feeding this diet..but the benefits far outweigh the bad..i cannot even explain what this diet has done for my 2 and many many other dogs..i really think you need to do a bit of research on both sides here....sorry that i choose not to feed my dog crap..im not saying that all kibbles are crap.. but dogs are CARNIVORES...they are NOT built to digest grains, corn and all that other crap that kibble is made up of..please look at this site..it explains the many myths of this diet
http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html

[ClarkFarm]

Danegirl2208,

I personally disagree with many of the opinions expressed from the website you posted but to argue opinions back and forth is pointless.

The information I posted is what is currently being taught to veterinarian students at the Philadelphia campus, PA. The raw diet by itself is discouraged in that veterinary college based on their own nutritional findings and case studies.

There are many quality bagged dog feed with clinical studies done supporting their results. You really should consult a qualified canine nutritionist for the overall best choice based on your individual dog.

You wrote: sorry that i choose not to feed my dog crap
There is no need to conduct yourself in such manner when trying to have an intelligent conversation on differing canine diets.

[BelovedJuggernaut]

ClarkFarm - I must have missed your post on RAW diets!

While you both have pros/cons to RAW diets, do either of you know if there is a benefit to feeding a combination of both?

What if you took a high grade kibble and mixed it with elements of raw diets? I haven't had much luck finding studies on this, but maybe I am just not looking in the right places.

Also, I find that most websites on RAW diets are not backed by nuetral or vet sites, but rather biased sites. Can anyone give me scientific studies on the nuetral side?

I am, and have been, considering switching my dogs to a RAW diet or a combination, but without HARD eveidence of pros/cons, I am very reluctant to do so. I agree that dogs have been domesticated for hundereds of years, but they are also carniverous creatures. My vet isn't too keen on the idea of RAW diets, but admits that some of his clients swear by them.

Like I said, I would love to know more about combo diets if there is any info out there!

[Danegirl2208]

well thank you..i respect your thoughts and views.. but the raw V kibble thing is a never ending battle, we just need to agree, to disagree..once again thank you for sharing your thoughts

[ClarkFarm]

BelovedJuggernaut,

My post about the potentially serious nutritional defiencies of a raw fed diet are only a couple posts above ^.

I stated a raw diet by itself is not recommended.
I wonder if my sis kept any of her case studies from vet school. She was telling me of some of them that she clearly remembers, anemic dogs and those with deformed limbs because they did not get enough calcium. Others that died on the operating table because they had some piece of bone obstructed in them.
Personally, aside from the nutritional aspects alone, I think you need to ask yourself why you would want to risk an obstruction. Some are fatal, most are very expensive to remedy.
This is why most propaganda for BARF is not supported by veterinarians. They base their opinion on the clinical studies done for nutrition as well as case studies like those mentioned above. I have found that many BARF enthusiasts are based more on their perceptions, especially the 'dog is wolf' idea. There is nothing wrong with formulating such an opinion but realize there are risks taken.

Danegirl2208,
Everyone here is entitled to their own opinion. The "battle" you mention is not an argument between veterinarians but amongst dog owners. I think that is important to note.
I agree to disagree. I knew when I posted that someone would react offensively but I stand behind what I said, that people need warned and made aware of the risks.

[poketmouse]

While you both have pros/cons to RAW diets, do either of you know if there is a benefit to feeding a combination of both?

Generally speaking, most dogs do really poorly when you mix elements of a raw diet and kibble. It takes a lot less time for raw food to digest than it takes kibble, so you end up with seriously sloppy poo. I've heard of some people who haven't had this problem, but I know that Geiger doesn't have the iron stomach it would take for that!
There's a lot of debate about kibble v. raw diet, and lots of people who insist it's the worst thing you could do. . .But processed kibble has only really been prevelant in the US since just after WWII, and it is a hefty industry. It just takes a lot of research to sort through the true concerns (choking, making sure you have good variety, etc) and be able to separate them from the "I heard that. . ."
I was pretty scared when I started with Geiger, but after seeing such monumental changes in him, I'm positive I'm doing what's best for him.

[ClarkFarm]

BelovedJuggernaut,

Read the entire article found in the link provided below. It may help you in your decision.

http://www.secondchanceranch.org/training/raw_meat/index.html

[poketmouse]

In the interests of seeing both sides, not to start an argument. Everyone here loves their dogs and want to do what is best for them.:D

http://rawfed.com/myths/rebuttal.html

[ClarkFarm]

poketmouse,
Actually, that link was already posted. That is why I posted the site containing information supporting my opinion of it.

[BelovedJuggernaut]

Alright....

First of all, thank you to everyone for information provided!

After looking at various websites and thinking about it, I think I will stick to kibble for now.

I guess my feeling is that all the pros of feeding raw are great, but if there is no problems now, why make the switch? It is like trying to fix something that isn't broken.

I think that possibly adding suppliments like omega 3/6, garlic, and a joint formula are a good idea. It is just like having a horse on suppliments... I just never thought of it that way until now!

I might try garlic and some sort of joint formula, but my dogs coats are gorgeous as is... (at least I think so)... so adding extra fats/oils isn't really necessary.

Anyhow...

Thanks to everyone for helping me make up my mind!

[Miska]

I fed my Dakota California Natural Herring and Sweet Potato, which is from the same company who makes Innova. She was on Innova LB puppy kibble but she got bored with it after 6 months. :rolleyes: I eventually plan to switch Dakota to Innova Evo when she's turns 2 years old.

[Puddles]

I am currently in food transition. LOL Since I was feeding Eagle pack, I noticed when I went to the store the other day, the company is changing some ingredients on their holistic chicken. So, I am now trying Wellness, will see if this dog likes this stuff. Tried a few already. I think I got Canidae and Innova left to try. He does like the Solid Gold though it seems, sometimes. Cats used to eat the chicken soup as well, got them on wellness as well, they are pickier for sure. And, of course, these are mixed with assorted can flavors!!

[suki]

I use Dick Van Pattens' Natural Balance

[amstaffmom]

I feed Lucy Nutro. It has made her coat very glossy and it's very healthy.:)

[Stark]

I decided to read this thread and found it very interesting. I myself support a natural diet. The argument that dogs have been domesticated doesn't make since to me regarding diet, kibble hasn't been around but a few decades. I also find the arguement with vets somewhat disturbing also, it is the large food companies that help to support vet schools and provide a lot of the studies to these schools. Take for instance the issue of vaccinations on an annual basis vs none after the initial cycle. Consider what kibble is made of, the same thing as a raw diet just crappy quality ingredients, With a natural diet you don't have the corn and beet for fillers and animal parts (toes, heads, feathers). Yes I would agree that supplements are needed but I seriously doubt these big manufacturers maintain such a strict level on their foods. I see the benefits of a raw diet and the difference it makes in a dog provided it is supplemented with calcium, phophorus, multivitamins and oils.
It is now time to begin the winter harvest of venison(deer,rabbit,squirrel) I don't feed the fish here in the lake because it's so freakin polluted but otherwise a realitively inexpensive diet except in the summer. Anyone on the forum feed Ground Hog to their dogs. I would encourage others to feed those smaller easier to chew bones as opposed to leg bones from deer or elk. Organ meat is also excellent and an inexpensive addition to the diet especially liver.
I believe with research and a little effort anyone can provide a raw and nutritionally balanced diet.


I know it may seem trivial but does anyone know how long it takes for a dogs stomach to empty. I would be concerned about pieces of large leg bones and possible obstructions but not with the necks or backs of chicken, turkey or small game. I know some use the arguement of placing a raw chicken bone in a glass of vinegar to simulate the dogs stomach and the affects of the acid, perhaps I'll try that experimant this week.

[rutylr]

Mine are on Canidae and my room mate feeds raw.
I loved Azmira,but at 44.00 for a 33lb bag it didn't go far with 4 Rottweilers.

[tiffany1white]

I feed my puppy ProPlan- Chicken and Rice Formula.
Recently I made him Vegetable Stew and he loves it.
I'm getting a Chihuahua next week and there is a recipe on Poop.com that calls for Chihuahua Stew. Go figure I'll make that for her as a welcoming home feasts :)

[poketmouse]

does anyone know how long it takes for a dogs stomach to empty. I would be concerned about pieces of large leg bones and possible obstructions but not with the necks or backs of chicken, turkey or small game.

I might be off by a few hours, but I believe that kibble generally takes 10 to 12 hours to go from one end to another and raw food takes about 6 hours. That's one of the reasons that so many dogs have super runny poo if they eat kibble and raw mixed together. A lot of dogs will pass visible pieces of bone when they start raw, before their stomach acids get used to it. Geiger did it a couple of times, but never any obstructions or bleeding.

[Marty]

My 8 dogs eat Timberwolf lamb and apple ;)

[Rottweilerlvr]

Mine eat DOG food..

We are in the faze right now of switching, so it's mixed with the old dog food( Pro Plan Giant Adult) with Canidae.

Completion day of switch... one more week... YEA!!! lol...

[DiggityDogs]

I know it may seem trivial but does anyone know how long it takes for a dogs stomach to empty. I would be concerned about pieces of large leg bones and possible obstructions but not with the necks or backs of chicken, turkey or small game. I know some use the arguement of placing a raw chicken bone in a glass of vinegar to simulate the dogs stomach and the affects of the acid, perhaps I'll try that experimant this week.

A good experiment, but I don't know if you'll get true to life results- vinegar is usually 5% acetic acid and is usually at about a 2.5 -3 ph, where stomach acid is mostly hydrochloric and is usually at a 1, 2 ph at the most. I've heard people on here talking about doing an experiment with greenies in a bowl of water to see what happens and that's just plain wrong- that's not what happens in your dogs stomach. Just a thought...

[SmoothCollieluver]

I have done the greenies thing with shedded greenies and that's good enough for me. Close enough to real.

[DiggityDogs]

That's no where close to realistic. Soak a piece of raw meat in water. It doesn't dissolve, either. Would you base a decision not to feed a piece of meat to your dog on that? Water won't break down anything that you or your dog eats, so that's not a realistic expectation of what will happen to a greenie in your dog's stomach. If you're still uncomfortable feeding greenies to your dog, that's your perrogotive, but it shouldn't be based on a bogus experiment.

[SmoothCollieluver]

I'll agree but I still think it deserves some merit. I have seen a greenie removed from the bottom of a dog's stomache. It pretty closely resembled what happens in the experiment except much smaller. It functions like a cork, espically in puppies that don't fully chew things

[poketmouse]

I've never heard of this vinegar plus bone experiment. What happens to the chicken bone? All I remember is puting meat in a glass of Coke and watching it partially "digest" after a while. Makes me feel awesome about drinking soda.:)

[shoffee]

My two eat Innova EVO. We switch between the regular and the RM, which they really love. We also use the EVO cookies and I feed them chicken paws as snacks. Occassionaly they'll get organ meat, as Rondo absolutely loves beef hearts.

We were on Wellness for awhile, but my two really didn't seem to care for the flavor. Normally little piggies, they just did not want to touch it. We also tried Raw for awhile, read a ton of books and joined several forums. We just couldn't get my cocker to stop with the runs and random puking. Everyone said she'd get over that, but after my dachshund fractured a tooth on a chicken drumstick I'd had enough (the vet says that he has the healthiest teeth she's seen on a dog, so it wasn't from poor dental as people on another website insisted). Raw just didn't work for us, though I've seen it do wonders for some of my grooming clients.

[StarfishSaving]

My two eat Innova EVO. We switch between the regular and the RM, which they really love. We also use the EVO cookies and I feed them chicken paws as snacks. Occassionaly they'll get organ meat, as Rondo absolutely loves beef hearts.

Hmm, heart is actually just rich muscle meat, not true organ tissue. My dogs LOVE deer heart. We get chicken livers and hearts from the grocery store on their last day and freeze them sometimes, but for some reason I think they're gross even though I can help with the deer butchering. Go figure.

Have you noticed anything like "burned" coat with your dogs- I've heard a lot of people say that about EVO and I thought the high protein might have something to do with it. My Irish has beautiful shiny fur and is getting another 42% protein food- Barking at the Moon by Solid Gold. We'll be taking him off of it because he's pretty young and we were just experimenting with allergens but he looks good. Skin is really dry though.

[SmoothCollieluver]

I didn't like evo. I tried it with my puppy and his coat didn't look very good and he had alot of loose stools. We are on Caniade (sp?) lamb and rice now. And he is doing great.

[Woof]

Starfish, this comment isn't directed at you but you bring up a point that I have heard before. Is EVO to high in protein?

I'm often surprised to hear people suggest that EVO is to high in protein. If you consider a raw piece of chicken and its protein content and then reduce the moisture content to 10% (equivalent to that of dry kibble) and recalculate the protein percentage you will come up with a higher protein content than EVO. If you consider dogs to be primarily carnivores I don't see how one can consider 42% protein to be too high. Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

Great Dialogue

[SmoothCollieluver]

yes wolves are carnivors but dogs really need a base in both groups. Cats need high protien not dogs. i have heard that you want to keep the protein under 25% i don't know where that number came from but that's what i have heard.

[StarfishSaving]

Good thoughts.

I think the comparison of a raw piece of chicken versus kibble's not quite accurate, though. For one thing- if you were to feed raw chicken to your dog, well, it would be raw! Not taken down to 10% moisture. Raw chicken only has around 20% protein. A carnivore isn't eating rendered kibble, nor is a dog eating only meat protein when it eats a natural diet (bone, fat, etc). I think comparing kibble to a raw diet just doesn't work. I add veggies (full of moisture and a good natural filler) to our Irish setter's meals *and* soak the kibble to help offset the protein and add moisture. I really do think it can be dangerous to feed high protein kibble, but it doesn't HAVE to be.

The body doesn't have a problem processing protein and expelling what it doesn't need IF the protein comes from a digestible source and has enough moisture. The liver and kidneys each use water to process the protein. Without proper dilution, they have to work overtime. That's why a lot of vets suggest not feeding dry food only, and why a raw diet works so well (proper moisture content).

[shoffee]

No, my dog's coats are gorgeous and their poop is firm--much more than I can say for other foods we've tried (and we've tried practically everything!). But if there's one thing I've learned with grooming, it's that every dog seems to do really well on something different. My manager's dogs ate raw and looked and felt amazing! My dogs couldn't handle a completely raw diet and didn't like Wellness, but the EVO is their thing. To each his own...

[Woof]

Starfish:

I'm a little puzzled by your statement that you add vegetables as a filler. Is this because your dog has a large appettite or because you feel that this filler is a moisture delivery system or simply to drive down the protein %? I don't think that the protein % is as important as the nominal amount of protein the dog is getting. And as you said the so well the dogs body doesn't have a problem expelling protein that it doesn't need. So how is it dangerouse to feed to much protein?

Smoothcollieluvr:

Do you think our dogs are that far removed from wolves? We have manipulated their breeding to express certain behaviors and appearances but I don't beleive that we have manipulated their gastronomic functioning. Certainly not through intetional genetic selection.

Thanks again for the feed back

[SmoothCollieluver]

Starfish:

I'm a little puzzled by your statement that you add vegetables as a filler. Is this because your dog has a large appettite or because you feel that this filler is a moisture delivery system or simply to drive down the protein %? I don't think that the protein % is as important as the nominal amount of protein the dog is getting. And as you said the so well the dogs body doesn't have a problem expelling protein that it doesn't need. So how is it dangerouse to feed to much protein?

Smoothcollieluvr:

iDo you thnk our dogs are that far removed from wolves? We have manipulated their breeding to express certain behaviors and appearances but I don't beleive that we have manipulated their gastronomic functioning. Certainly not through intetional genetic selection.

Thanks again for the feed back

I think that unless your dog is getting a ton of exercise like wolves or is eatting raw diet that it is alot different. I don't have an issue with people feeding high protein foods. It just doesn't work for my dogs.

[Woof]

Well I certainly agree that there is no single solution that is right for all dogs. My ideas and thoughts on feeding do change some based on my conversations with others, like yourself, who actually care about what their dog eats, so thanks. Also, I certainly agree that high performance dogs such as feild dogs and agility dogs are more likely to benefit from a higher protein diet.

[SmoothCollieluver]

I agree. My dog is mostly just a house dog. He does show in conformation but that doesn't require much energy.

[StarfishSaving]

Starfish:

I'm a little puzzled by your statement that you add vegetables as a filler. Is this because your dog has a large appettite or because you feel that this filler is a moisture delivery system or simply to drive down the protein %? I don't think that the protein % is as important as the nominal amount of protein the dog is getting.

Filler for moisture content.

And as you said the so well the dogs body doesn't have a problem expelling protein that it doesn't need. So how is it dangerouse to feed to much protein?

Ah, is that what I said? ;) Because there's a big difference between "doesn't have a problem" and "The body doesn't have a problem processing protein and expelling what it doesn't need IF the protein comes from a digestible source and has enough moisture."

The IF is important. It CAN be dangerous to feed too much protein if you're not providing enough fluid. The kidneys and liver use that as a medium to filter the protein through them more efficiently. The more protein in a food, the more you should increase the dog's water consumption. Otherwise the organs work overtime to get the protein processed and it's speculated that this can lead to kidney and liver disease. It certainly can with people. It is ESPECIALLY dangerous if a person or dog is already having problems or at risk regarding kidney/liver health. I don't honestly believe that *most* dogs will see ill effects from feeding high protein foods but I don't think there's a point in feeding twice as much protein as your dog needs, either.

[DiggityDogs]

The IF is important. It CAN be dangerous to feed too much protein if you're not providing enough fluid. The kidneys and liver use that as a medium to filter the protein through them more efficiently. The more protein in a food, the more you should increase the dog's water consumption. Otherwise the organs work overtime to get the protein processed and it's speculated that this can lead to kidney and liver disease. It certainly can with people. It is ESPECIALLY dangerous if a person or dog is already having problems or at risk regarding kidney/liver health. I don't honestly believe that *most* dogs will see ill effects from feeding high protein foods but I don't think there's a point in feeding twice as much protein as your dog needs, either.

This can be seen easily in ducks or geese raised for foie gras. They're force fed a high fat, high protien diet and their livers cannot handle it. Foie gras literally means ''fatty liver'' because the tiny liver of the goose gets so diseased from having to process all of that crap that it swells up to 4 or 5 lbs. Fortunately for geese they're killed before the liver disease kills them. (not that it's a humane death, they suffer for weeks until they're put out of their misery.)
Of course this is an extreme example, but an example none-the-less. No, our dogs are not being force fed the protien, but what dog would turn down something that smells so good? if you offer it up, most dogs will eat it. Most dogs will also drink anti-freeze or eat meat with poison in it pretty readily- that doesn't make it good for them just because they eat it.

[BelovedJuggernaut]

This can be seen easily in ducks or geese raised for foie gras. They're force fed a high fat, high protien diet and their livers cannot handle it. Foie gras literally means ''fatty liver'' because the tiny liver of the goose gets so diseased from having to process all of that crap that it swells up to 4 or 5 lbs. Fortunately for geese they're killed before the liver disease kills them. (not that it's a humane death, they suffer for weeks until they're put out of their misery.)


I feel bad almost every time I eat it too, but it is sooooo good. I guess that comes with the territory of being a foodie huh?

[Woof]

Oh great, now you got me thinking about Gosse-pot-pie. Nothing better!

I'll go out on a limb here and say that the goose / protein thing is probably not a fair comparison considering they are strict vegetarians. What is it that they are feeding these geese? As a goose hunter I know they flock to soy bean fields which are relatively high in protein but I don't think it compares with the protein content of meat.

[DiggityDogs]

Oh great, now you got me thinking about Gosse-pot-pie. Nothing better!

I'll go out on a limb here and say that the goose / protein thing is probably not a fair comparison considering they are strict vegetarians. What is it that they are feeding these geese? As a goose hunter I know they flock to soy bean fields which are relatively high in protein but I don't think it compares with the protein content of meat.

It doesn't, but i'm using this as an example because livers perform the same function in every animal. While dogs can handle a much higher fat/protein ratio than geese, they still have their limits. Dogs are not obligate carnivores and will readily eat plant material, and certainly couldn't handle a 100% protein diet... a liver can only filter out so much, same for kidneys.

[shoffee]

This can be seen easily in ducks or geese raised for foie gras. They're force fed a high fat, high protien diet and their livers cannot handle it. Foie gras literally means ''fatty liver'' because the tiny liver of the goose gets so diseased from having to process all of that crap that it swells up to 4 or 5 lbs. Fortunately for geese they're killed before the liver disease kills them. (not that it's a humane death, they suffer for weeks until they're put out of their misery.)
Of course this is an extreme example, but an example none-the-less. No, our dogs are not being force fed the protien, but what dog would turn down something that smells so good? if you offer it up, most dogs will eat it. Most dogs will also drink anti-freeze or eat meat with poison in it pretty readily- that doesn't make it good for them just because they eat it.

Wow, I've learned from other forums that posting on topics as controversial as dog food is never a good idea. Should have kept that in mind and refrained from posting here.

Yes, I feed my dogs EVO, a high-protein food. While a few of you here seem to think that's analogous to poisoning them, I believe what their twice-annual blood tests, glowing physical reports, and energy levels tell me...that they're the picture of excellent health. I did a lot of research and 2.5 years of experimentation with different diets before *finally* finding something that works well for my pets. If you could see the difference between my pets before and after we started this food I think you'd agree it was the best thing for them. I love my dogs and would never do anything to harm them, and this whole comparison of their diet to fattening geese for foie gras (and the animal's suffering endured through this practice) really offends me. Linking pet owners that feed high protein diets to farmers who raise animals for foie gras (or even paralleling high-protien diets to poison-laced meat or antifreeze cocktails) makes it sound like we're engaging in animal abuse. I certainly hope you don't believe that.

Please realize that there is no "universally perfect" diet for any individual; canine or otherwise. While the high-protein route may not be ideal for many dogs, it is for us.

[ShetlandSheepDog]

Mine eats the combination of California Naturals and Canidae....On RARE ocassions i might give him some raw meat as a treat. He also gets veggies and fruits/yogurts...

[ShetlandSheepDog]

An idea for those who said they cannot afford a healthier and often times more expensive food is to mix foods... this is what our veterinarian recommended. I do not mean mix the lowest quality in but something like Purina One or ProPlan. It is still considered about mid-grade quality in the overall picture and its inexpensive... makes the good stuff last a bit longer so your dog isn't eating just McDonalds everyday ;) .

IMO if i couldn't afford a better quality food and HAD to feed grocery store brands i think Purine ONE is a much better dog foods than all the other "commercial" dog foods out there.

[DiggityDogs]

Wow, I've learned from other forums that posting on topics as controversial as dog food is never a good idea. Should have kept that in mind and refrained from posting here.

Yes, I feed my dogs EVO, a high-protein food. While a few of you here seem to think that's analogous to poisoning them, I believe what their twice-annual blood tests, glowing physical reports, and energy levels tell me...that they're the picture of excellent health. I did a lot of research and 2.5 years of experimentation with different diets before *finally* finding something that works well for my pets. If you could see the difference between my pets before and after we started this food I think you'd agree it was the best thing for them. I love my dogs and would never do anything to harm them, and this whole comparison of their diet to fattening geese for foie gras (and the animal's suffering endured through this practice) really offends me. Linking pet owners that feed high protein diets to farmers who raise animals for foie gras (or even paralleling high-protien diets to poison-laced meat or antifreeze cocktails) makes it sound like we're engaging in animal abuse. I certainly hope you don't believe that.

Please realize that there is no "universally perfect" diet for any individual; canine or otherwise. While the high-protein route may not be ideal for many dogs, it is for us.

If you want to put words in my mouth and find something to be ofended by then I cannot stop you. I never said anything about feeding evo being like force feeding geese- my statement was in response to someone's question as to whether a diet that is too high in protien would be bad for a dog. How high is too high- I didn't specify, because I honestly don't know what the limit is that an average dog could handle. You feed what's best for your dog, bottom line. If it works for you, great. This thread is not all about you and what you feed.

[Woof]

Shoffee:

I hope that you don't leave this forum or discussion. It is often difficult to convey tone in a quickly written email and sometimes it feels that responses are attacks, (I try to becareful with my comments but I know I have offended others unintentionally). If we were all sitting around a table I presume you would mostly see smiling faces. Plus we need your opinions as well as those that have different views.

I personally think EVO is one of the best commercial diets available, though I agree that its not perfect for all and all dogs should be encouraged to drink water or have it added to their kibble. It most certainly aids in digestion.

I recently talked to a gentleman who said he fed fis dog EVO and that his dog and its littermates all got together for a reunion after a year. He said his dog looked like a seal (meaning the coat was shinny wet looking) relative to all his dogs littermates which were fed other nono-holistic brands.

[DiggityDogs]

(or even paralleling high-protien diets to poison-laced meat or antifreeze cocktails)

Again-you misunderstood. It was not a statement paralelling feeding hi-pro to ''poisoned laced meat''. It was a statement meant to argue the point that the dog will eat it regardless of the protein content, so you can't base your decision on whether the dog eats the food well or not, because dogs will eat most anything. If you'd like me to rephrase so I don't offend you- replace anti-freeze and poison with chocolate, pork bones, rawhides, dead birds, whatever. I haven't even read any of your posts on this thread until now, so it was in no way directed to you, and why you think so is beyond me. Maybe a little sensitive??

[Woof]

Shetland:

I think your smart for adding the yogurt in particular.

[StarfishSaving]

shoffee, no one was comparing you to a foie gras farmer. Diggity was using that as an example to show what happens at the extreme WHEN an animal gets too much protein. That's the point we were discussing, not what constitutes as too much protein..

Feed what you want- if you see good results then don't worry about what other people think. I hope you won't leave the forum- I think there was a misunderstanding, that's all. :)

[shoffee]

Oops, I guess this is a good example of me missing the tone of the written word. I know that this forum isn't all about me and my dogs and I in no way meant to convey selfishness in my post. I'm sorry if it got taken that way, but if you read the posts in order the progression went from me feeding evo to how it's a very high protein food to diggity's post about the geese. Read contextually with the other posts, it just seemed that you were comparing people who feed high-protein diets to those geese farmers. I'm sorry if I misunderstood and I wasn't trying to be rude; many apologies if it was construed this way.

[shoffee]

I haven't even read any of your posts on this thread until now, so it was in no way directed to you, and why you think so is beyond me. Maybe a little sensitive??
Again, Diggity, I'm sorry. How was I to know what you had and hadn't read? I hope my previous post explains my misconjecture, and I do feel bad about it. Maybe I am a little over-sensitive about some things, but if you thought someone was comparing your animal care to farmers raising foie gras geese I bet you'd feel just as awful as I did. I'm glad it's not that case, and I can't apologize enough for my misunderstanding.

[DiggityDogs]

Starfish:

So how is it dangerouse to feed to much protein?



My statements were in response to this question... I guess maybe next time I'll quote the original statement so no one else mistakenly thinks I'm responding to them...

[suki]

I know it may seem trivial but does anyone know how long it takes for a dogs stomach to empty. I would be concerned about pieces of large leg bones and possible obstructions but not with the necks or backs of chicken, turkey or small game. I know some use the arguement of placing a raw chicken bone in a glass of vinegar to simulate the dogs stomach and the affects of the acid, perhaps I'll try that experimant this week.


it's not trivial, at all. It takes, roughly, due to a shorter=as opposed to humans digestive tract "roughly" about 4-5 hours to empty.

The human digestive system is designed to retain plant material for periods long enough so that enzymes can break down the food so it can be used as usuable nutrients.
Conversely, the canine's structure/body is designed to be able to handle meat, and extract nutrients by way of of strong stomach acids, and to be able to remove harmful bacteria and any parasites before they have a chance to do any harm to its system. However, plant material is made up of "cellulose", which takes longer for the enzymes to break down before the nutrients can be extracted and therefore used. Raw foods, therefore "typically" move thru the canine's digestive system at a rate of about 6-8 hours. Yes, somewhat slower than feeding a diet of kibble.

[reeskujo]

I feed Chicken Soup.It has everything my Kujo needs and he loves it.It's also priced well for a good quality food.My mom also feeds it to her Lab puppies and loves the results on their health and their coats.

[d'tails]

Do any of you do this? I was told to do this and it has kept allergies at bay. The problem I have is dry, flaky skin. I do have one who has chronic ear issues, but is much better than before. I stay with the same brand, just different bag each time. I feed solid gold and like it. (Holistic, Wolfking, Barking, Hundenflocken,...) They also get steamed veggies.
I was also told if you need to supplement the food is not right for the dog.
Someone else suggested flax seed meal over the oil. More beneficial than the oil.
One thing I used to use when pitching food was do you ever see dogs grazing in the wheat/corn fields? Then someone came back with no, but the prey they eat sure does...Wasn't quite sure what to do with that...
Thanks

[Woof]

d'tails:

True. The prey they eat do eat grain but those prey animals are designed to maximize the benefits of a vegetartian diet. If the suggestion was that the dogs are eating what the prey animal ate first I think that that is not unlikey, but I think it is not the intended target and provides little nutrition to the dog relative to the rest of the prey animal. The stomach lining, tripe, on the other hand may well be some of the most nutritious.

Regarding dry skin. For my customers who eat tuna from the can I recomend that they pour the tuna oil over their dog's food. This does help dry skin. Alternatively California Natural has a great skin and coat product that does the same with a profit margin. ;)

[Deeyogee]

I found a great food and a great service here in CA that I've been using for quite a while. The brand is called Nature's Select and it contains NO corn, wheat, soy or by-products. It has three sources of whole meat protein in the first 5 ingredients. They've been around for about 12 years. Best of all, they deliver a 50 lb. bag right to my front door at no extra charge!!! I simply pay for the dog food when I need it. It's only $42.50 (0.85/lb) and that's a better price than what I was paying for Natural Balance or Eagle Pack. A neighbor turned me on to them a few years back and they've been awesome to deal with. I noticed on their website that they have this service all over the U.S., check it out if you're interested: www.naturesselectpetfood.com

[d'tails]

I looked at the website and they don't seem to deliver to Oregon.:( Too bad as that would have been nice.

[myminpins]

I feed a completely raw diet from here:

http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/

[Lone_Star_Girl]

We feed Solid Gold. In the mornings I mix it with canned and in the evenings I add water. We give lamb liver, the occasional string cheese bite during obedience and yogurt as treats.

[adt_7793]

We have 3 older dogs..and for them we use Purina "little bites"...we also have 3 puppies they use " Purina Puppy Chow" and all dogs love it!!:)

[reeskujo]

We have 3 older dogs..and for them we use Purina "little bites"...we also have 3 puppies they use " Purina Puppy Chow" and all dogs love it!!:)So you feed Purina but want to breed your dog?I think Beloved was right....Do some research!

[SmoothCollieluver]

So you feed Purina but want to breed your dog?I think Beloved was right....Do some research!


I don't think that purina pro plan is a bad food, depending on what you can afford. I fed it when i was younger and couldn't afford better food.

[reeskujo]

I don't think the Pro Plan is to bad of a food,but she's feeding Puppy Chow and neither Puppy Chow or Dog Chow is a good quality food IMO.

[StarfishSaving]

For the price of Pro Plan you can get Chicken Soup, which is much better IMO. However yes, it's better than grocery store foods by far.

Puppy/Dog Chow is not.

[ClarkFarm]

Starfish,
You will be proud to know I have inadvertently affected several people in my local area to buy Chicken Soup lol! I was in the feed store today and the owner told me that some women had seen me on different occasions buying that food and he now has about 10 regular customers for that particular brand :D

[SmoothCollieluver]

For the price of Pro Plan you can get Chicken Soup, which is much better IMO. However yes, it's better than grocery store foods by far.

Puppy/Dog Chow is not.


O i agree but chicken soup, and some of the other lower cost good foods aren't available in all areas. I know they weren't sold where i lived before moving here. All we had was a pet co.

[reeskujo]

Generally you have to get Chicken Soup from a feed store.At least that's where I got mine.

[StarfishSaving]

A lot of pet stores carry Chicken Soup, just not the big box stores like Petco and Petsmart. You have to look around or use a store locator online. It is a LOT more easily found now than it was a couple years ago, believe me. But yes, many feed type stores have it.

I drive 45 minutes for my food (CA Natural Herring and sweet potato formula for both my dogs and cats!) every 2 weeks. We make it doggy field trip day because there are several pet stores that allow dogs so we visit them all to make the trip more worthwhile. I realize those of you with kids can't do that as much. Then again, not everyone runs out of food in 2 weeks... lol (6 dogs, 11 cats in the house currently...) And yes, we could buy many bags at once to make it last longer but we have nowhere safe to store it (or money, usually, to buy more than that.)

[cec]

Pet Supplies Plus carries Chicken Soup.

[Beate]

Life’s Abundance Premium Health Food
It is veterinarian-formulated with the finest ingredients for optimum health. They use only fresh, human-quality ingredients, like premium all-natural meats, fresh fruits, vegetables and other select farm foods. Additionally, it includes a superior blend of vitamins, minerals and antioxidants. There are no artificial flavors, colors, sugars or chemical preservatives.
My dogs love it and my cat too. When you are on autoship you get a great discount.
http://PurrfectPetHealth.com

[xxXABLgXxx]

I use Pedigree. I don't remember it being on the recall, and maggie loves it. I could tell a difference in her energy and coat when we started using it, and she hasn't gotten sick off of it at all. So I think it's pretty good.:) We can't afford any of the 'big time brands' that good breeders use, so we started using that.:)

[ClarkFarm]

We now feed Taste of the Wild, alternating between the salmon and the bison formulas. The dogs eat less of it so the price really isn't any higher. They seem to really enjoy it, more so than the Chicken Soup food.

[dogforever]

I feed Lucy Nutro. It has made her coat very glossy and it's very healthy.

[chillypeppers]

I feed one dog Natural Choice light and the puppy gets Solid Gold Hundenflaken.