Rescue groups have gone mad! [Archive] - Dog Forums

StarWhisper

01-12-2006, 08:22 PM

Well I hold mixed feelings on if this is immoral or not...I do rescue work as well I have a very strict contract and requirements for adoption...Part of my contract states that if any dogs I adopt out end up in a shelter because it's gets lost, runs away, is turned in, etc..I am the one that will be contacted (microchip and tattoos).

My contract states in this case I will retrieve the animal and it may or may not be returned to the owner depending on a case by case situation and what I feel is best for the animal..I make sure prospective adopters understand this fully.

I take certain things into consideration...I am more likely to be lenient with someone that has proven to be a good pet reesponsible pet owner, that provides proper care, attended obediences classes and involves themselves in the sport of dogs...in other words an active and involved pet owner is someone I would be willing to make exceptions for because accidents do happen and I understand this.

For me leaving a dog outside unsupervised so it can get out would immediately result in me reclaiming the dog and it would not be returned. My contract forbids each dog I adopt out from being outdoors unsupervised for any period of time.

Anyone who adopts a dog from me and lets the dog out unsupervised it is a breech of contract and any and all breeches of contracts can result in my reclaiming of said dog.

But again it's on a case by case evaluation and other circumstances surrouding the situation.

I try to be fair (which is why I work case by case) but I also have a responsibility to these animals and my choices have to be what's in their best interest not in what makes the person feel good.

DiggityDogs

01-12-2006, 10:29 PM

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Rio&Nickysmommy

01-12-2006, 11:17 PM

I am very big on responsible pet ownership but as with children to stuff does happen and they can get out even the most well trained dogs or pets. I think this rules and regulations at times are a bit hypocritical. Unless you know that the pet is being neglected the adoption agency has no right to judge these people. I would not go to anyone who wants me to be so scrutinized. I have owned dogs all my life. Most pet owners who dogs run away are running all over the darn place trying to locate the pet. It seems its easier to adopt a child then it is to adopt a dog from some of these places. I agree with matching up pet owners ect. Making sure people know what the breed invovles. Like I wouldnt put a great dane in a small apartment ect.. But if I adopted a dog and he got out of the yard when my back was turned and the apotion agency got the dog and had tyo decide IF they would give the dog back. Thats crazy in my mind. Adding more trauma to a bad situation. Maybe the fact of the matter is instead of having to evaluate after a situation happens they should just refuse to adopt to the people in the begining. I love animals and advocate for them but I dont need my enire life evaluated over this. I believe in the screening process not this other nonsense unless their is a cause to keep the dog. To me that is neglect. Some people just do basic obedience with their dogs sit & stay and housebreaking and socializing. I just have major issues with this and I do Know most rescues are fabulous.
RIo&Nickysmommy

catcher T

01-13-2006, 12:03 AM

Rio&Nickysmommy

01-13-2006, 02:12 AM

I agree with you. Alot of these places are really turning people off and away from being great pet owners too!
RIo&Nickysmommy

StarWhisper

01-13-2006, 02:05 PM

QUOTE=catcher T]your type of rescue group is just the BS I am taking about,,unsupervised outside? give me a break,,we are talking dogs here,,[/quote]

If you don't like it that's too bad, there are reasons while the rule is in play.

Yes we are talking about dogs here, dogs that have been dumped, tossed aside, abandonded, etc..

Dogs that those of us in foster and rescue are finding responsible worthy forever homes for.

I have had one or two get away while I am watching them,,it happens.

Hence why each situation is judged case by case, there's a big difference in someone being there to see their dog get away and to be able to take immediate action on bringing it safely home and someone who lets their dog outside alone and has no clue when it got out or to even begin looking.

These are all the reasons I go to the shelter myself,,so I don't have to fill out forms asking me what my income is and where I work and all that other personal info that I won't answer to get a dog,,

Shelters are wonderful. Are some of the questions invasive? Of course they are however there's a reason they are asked, to ensure the correct dog and correct family are matched up. I myself have been on the receiving end of questioning in the past and I didn't mind one bit because I knew the individual was trying to learn about me to make sure I was a suitable home for said animal.

I take better care of my dogs then most ppl do their kids and would not want to have to do things your way

And truth be told someone like you would not pass the initial screening for adoption with me. Your arrogance in the care you give your animals is a turn off, your tone suggests that you expect everyone to take you as some great pet owner based upon your word...Why because you say so?

All your post shows me is...

That you are aware of the well known fact that even supervising your dog it can get away (all the more reason to supervise by the way)

You would go to a shelter rather than rescue were you looking to adopt

You don't like answering questions about yourself when being screened for adoption.

Nothing there shows any evidence of you being such a great pet owner.

DiggityDogs

01-13-2006, 02:18 PM

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StarWhisper

01-13-2006, 04:04 PM

Is taking a dog from a shelter now not considered 'rescuing'? I would think these dogs would be in more need, since most rescue groups are no-kill, so the dogs there are not in immediate danger.

Of course getting a dog from a shelter is considered rescue and shelters are a wonderful place to get an animal from. I have done my share of rescue work in a shelter enviroment and those dogs were no less special than the dogs in rescue.

They are all deserving of homes.

Please go back and read the thread I was not the one to draw a seperation in where I would rescue from, another poster drew that line I pointed it out.

I agree that homes should be screened. I'll answer questions about my yard, fence, family, job, past and present pets, vet, etc. I just don't understand why it's any of the group's business in cases where they ask questions like I mentioned before- being on the furniture, restricted from areas of the house.

I agree with you in this case, some questions are out there. Some people don't let pets on the furniture and some restrict certain area's of the house. The furniture rule I think is a good one...I don't recommend anyone allow their pets on the furniture until their position as pack leader is clear and restrictions are done for a reason (to keep the animal safe).

And believe me- that's not the end of it with most of the groups in our area. Some WILL NOT adopt to ANYONE who has kids, regardless of their age- one lady I spoke with said that the kids had better be graduated from high school before she'll adopt to their family.

That's why I think it's so important to screen. I have matched up dogs with families that have children successfully, including young children. I put the effort and time into these dog and work with them personally and extensively I know which ones would be suitable in a home with children and what age child they would be suitable with.

Another group refused to adopt to a man who had already picked out a dog, met it, spoken with the head of the foster group, because he didn't have his 13 year old dog who was sick with cancer and near death on heartworm prevention. He just didn't want to have to give the dog any additional meds during the last few months of it's life, and I can agree with him.

If everything else checked out then I don't agree with this man being turned down. Personally I would have told the head of the foster group how additional medications would weaken the animals already compromised immune system. In other words I would have done everything in my power to help this man adopt.

There are groups out there that do wonderful work, but from what I've seen within the last few years, they've changed so much I'm afraid of the direction they're going.

I can understand your concern. I don't always agree with how things are done but I know they are done for a reason.

I guess those of us involved in rescue make it so tough to get a dog because these animals become part of our lives and families..I can't speak for everyone in rescue only myself but I know that these are not just dogs that come with me until a home is found...they become my babies when they enter my care and I love them just as I love my own dogs and want the best for them.

I've met so many kooks working for these groups I'd rather go without a dog than have to adopt right now. I know the work is hard, and the job will most likely never be finished, but some of these rescue folks that i've met really either need a break or need to take a chill pill. I'm not looking for adoption to be made easier, just better.

And in defense of rescue we are not looking for adoptions to made impossible we just want to take every precaution to do what's best for the dog...that is our concern that is where our commitment lay.

I am sorry that some groups have soured your view on rescue.

On more than one occassion if I felt someone would be an appropriate home for one of our dogs but something would disqualify them from being approved for adoption (not having a fenced in yard for example) I have approved their adoption.

Yes I have a strict contract but it is not set in stone and despite what anyone may think I am not heartless and on more than one occasion I have made exceptions...

Do I need a break or a chill pill?

No I don't but it does bother me that everyone who is dissaproved for adoption sits there judging those of us in rescue. In some cases families that are dissaproved should be adopted to, but in other cases the dissaprovals are there for a reason and rightfully so.

It's not entirely black and white and never will be.

From the prospective of someone involved in rescue I do understand the concerns and frustrations expressed and I will be bringing them up with my peers.

And in turn I hope those of you who are just looking in on rescue from the outside can at least one day hopefully attempt to understand why we make adoption is so difficult. I am not asking you agree with us but I am asking you try to be a bit more understanding of why we do what we do and not be so hastily to judge us.

I think more understanding is needed from both parties.

The question we all need to ask ourselves...both rescuers and potential adopters is what is best for the animals, that is after all what we all want is it not?

What's best for the animals?

Rio&Nickysmommy

01-13-2006, 05:11 PM

I have to Cockerspaniels. Which I pampered an spoil to the extreme. I work primarly at home so the dogs are never left alone for more then 2 hours at a time. I am what might be considered a nuerotic pet owner- If I notice anything with my dogs they are rushed off to the vet. I have strict rules at my house never ever open a door I dont care who it is until you know where the dogs are. The dogs are not allowed out in the yard till the fence gate is checked that it is closed. When I go away the only person ever to watch my pets is my father who knows how to care for their ears since they have periods of problems with Cocker ears so they need to be maintained. My dogs sllep on our beds and can go on our furniture. We have no children so hence these dogs are our lives. My concern is if my dog were to get out (which would devastate me) would a rescue give my dogs back. My concern is that my dogs are Cockers and we have them groomed in the summer with very short hair cuts. Reason is concern over being able to find ticks ect.. The dogs go to my mothers with me alot and she lives in a very wooded area that has dear ect.. Once we found a tick we started to keep the dogs hair short in the summer to be able to find them easy. Alot of people feel we are not keeping with the dog breed ect.. Would that cause me not to get my dog back from a rescue. I worry when I read stories. Truly I do belive you heart is in the right place. If someone lost their pet and I didnt hear from them in days I would worry about sending the dog back. I would think and hope to believe everyone would be as frantic as me but I guess from your expierence its not that way. I think the screening process for first adopting the dog is important. Especially adopting to people with children. I think children really should be taught how to treat pets and alot of animals would be placed in more homes. I understand shelters and rescues being concerned over pets. Just with my own family- my nephew visited me and the dog was alseep on the couch next to him. I am in the same room. The dog yelp and snapped at him. Now thats not my dogs behavior at all. I asked my nephew what he did he said he pinched the dogs nose while he was sleeping so he couldnt breath. Mind you its a 14 year old kid. I was mad I told him dont ever bnother the dog again then spoke to his father about it. My nephew asked what if he would have biten me? I told him you would have deserved it, he was shocked I said that. I told him I would stop the bleeding but you cant try to kill the dog he doesnt know you are joking around and you could really hurt him or kill him. So I do think screening of pets especially with kids is important. I think alot of situations are hard to evaluate - my biggeest concern would be adopting to families with kids. My nephew is not a monster but he needs a good one one course on how to treat animals. I never leave my dogs alone with any child. I guess I got off track here my point was showing I understand why screening ect is important. I just have concerns from the start of this post about this rescue lying to this woman that they didnt have the dog to begin with. Unless their is more then that I have not read I saw no reason for her not to get the dog back.
Animals are the priority to give them healthy happy homes.
RIo&Nickysmommy

catcher T

01-13-2006, 10:10 PM

QUOTE=catcher T]your type of rescue group is just the BS I am taking about,,unsupervised outside? give me a break,,we are talking dogs here,,

If you don't like it that's too bad, there are reasons while the rule is in play.

Yes we are talking about dogs here, dogs that have been dumped, tossed aside, abandonded, etc..

Dogs that those of us in foster and rescue are finding responsible worthy forever homes for.

Hence why each situation is judged case by case, there's a big difference in someone being there to see their dog get away and to be able to take immediate action on bringing it safely home and someone who lets their dog outside alone and has no clue when it got out or to even begin looking.

Shelters are wonderful. Are some of the questions invasive? Of course they are however there's a reason they are asked, to ensure the correct dog and correct family are matched up. I myself have been on the receiving end of questioning in the past and I didn't mind one bit because I knew the individual was trying to learn about me to make sure I was a suitable home for said animal.

And truth be told someone like you would not pass the initial screening for adoption with me. Your arrogance in the care you give your animals is a turn off, your tone suggests that you expect everyone to take you as some great pet owner based upon your word...Why because you say so?

All your post shows me is...

That you are aware of the well known fact that even supervising your dog it can get away (all the more reason to supervise by the way)

You would go to a shelter rather than rescue were you looking to adopt

You don't like answering questions about yourself when being screened for adoption.

Nothing there shows any evidence of you being such a great pet owner.[/QUOTE]

you no nothing about me or what kind of dog or cat owner that I am,,,and no,,I wouldn't pass your type of screening,,I don't have a fenced yard,,I don't let my dogs sleep in bed,,they are dogs and not humans,,and I won't do home visits from the rescue group I get them from,,and yes my word should be good enough.

DiggityDogs

01-14-2006, 12:53 AM

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TxDog

01-14-2006, 01:39 AM

The animal shelter in Austin right on Town Lake is awful. Every employee I dealt with was a complete ass, very stuck up. Before even playing with the animals to see if they even had one you liked you have to go through a vigorus screening and could not play with the animals that day. The next day we went back and they closed early so again we couldn't play with them. Day after they called and told us they would have to verify our address before we could play with the animals. Never called back. Finally adopted one from another county.

catcher T

01-14-2006, 01:54 AM

StarWhisper

01-15-2006, 05:56 PM

you no nothing about me or what kind of dog or cat owner that I am,,,and no,,I wouldn't pass your type of screening,,I don't have a fenced yard,,I don't let my dogs sleep in bed,,they are dogs and not humans,,and I won't do home visits from the rescue group I get them from,,and yes my word should be good enough.

Your posts have showed me what type of pet owner you are.

Your right you would not pass my screening and it has nothing to do with the fact you don't have a fenced in yard or allow an animal to sleep in your bed.

It's because you are NOT worthy of sharing your life with my breed. Your attitude is a turn off.

A fenced yard is required for the safety of the animal. Are exceptions made at times? They sure are. It depends on the individual dog and the family or person interested in adopting him or her.

I don't see anywhere I said I required prospective adopters to allow an animal to sleep in a bed. Some people do some people don't. That's each family personal decision.

They are dogs and not humans? How foolish is that to say? Nobody ever said they were the same however in getting a pet you are expected to demonstrate a certain level of commitment and responsibility to their safety and well being.

Home visits are required for a reason. It's so rescue workers know that the dogs we adopt out are going to live in a proper and well suited home.

I can and have made exceptions to the adoption requirements for the right individuals that have shown evidence they are good responsible pet owners.

What I won't do however is approve adoptions for egotistical fools that think they should be given a dog just because they want one.

What makes your word good enough?

Nothing. Your word is worthless. Rescue workers don't want someones word. They want proof and evidence of the individual looking to adopt being a worthy owner.

RobDar

01-18-2006, 12:56 PM

I could do without the generalizations...
not ALL rescue groups have gone mad!
There have ALWAYS been some overly righteous groups...those who take personal moral offense to people who do not keep their animals in exactly the way that they themselves see fit. This is not a new thing.
There are those groups who cannot differentiate between animal rights and animal welfare. Groups like the one in this article damage us all...they hinder our ability to be effective.
Not to mention that they broke the law...and any group that operates outside the law cannot effectively work to improve the laws...which makes them a hinderance, not an asset!
Groups like this one do not last. Their idiocy will strangle them right out of existance.

DiggityDogs

01-18-2006, 02:47 PM

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RobDar

01-20-2006, 11:38 AM

What exactly are the specifications necessary for a rescue to be doing a "good" job in your eyes?

DiggityDogs

01-20-2006, 02:53 PM

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RobDar

01-20-2006, 04:24 PM

No reason to get testy...
I just asked a question...which I should have worded more carefully perhaps...
I do not agree with what this rescue did either...
So far though, your "How Abouts..." are still things that represent less than half of rescue groups. You cannot use your experience in the Dallas area as representitive of rescue in general. I am not saying that these groups do not exist....they do...I am not saying that it is not possible that, for some unknown reason, that this kind of group is not concentrated in your area (many times the presence of a vocal and well organized animal rights agenda, certian social and econmic factors and local laws will concentrate a particular kind of rescue into specific locals...New Jersey would be a good example. The presence of a large and vocal animal rights agenda and local laws has developed a very strict rescue philosophy).
I am not saying that any of the "How Abouts..." you sited are proper behavior for any rescue. They are not...and it is a shame that it happens. The biggest problem is that there is no regulation of rescue facilities. There are no standards. This leaves each rescue to operate how ever they choose. Perhaps you could make efforts to support legislation in your area that would introduce regulation, licensing, and standards. Many states have bills dieing on the floor every session tht would impose regulations and standards. My state, Indiana, presently has 8 bills on the floor with regulation of rescue in mind.
Rescue is no different than any other "profession". there are always those doing it that should not be. There are many many rescues who, from the things we witness on a daily basis (and for every ridiculous thing a rescue has ever done I can give you several really stupid things someone has done to their animal), become eatin up by an kind of bitterness. Bearing witness to abuse day in and day out twists perceptions and poisons many rescuers with the kind of idiocy in the original post. That is not an excuse...what it is, is a sad pitfall of the "work"...and rather than critically attack those who have fallen into this pitfall...the animals and animal welfare in this country will gleen more benefit from understanding how they got there...and help them to not go there again.

...and as far as attacking me in your post....
It is easy to stand on the outside and be critical of what you see. Being critcal however, solves nothing...
If it bothers you...get involved! Do something to change it. Otherwise...as far as I am concerned...you are just another finger pointer (just as many of the rescuers you dislike are simply pointing fingers)...and all of you can stand and point fingers at each other all day long...but while you are doing that, the animals are the ones who suffer.

DiggityDogs

01-20-2006, 11:12 PM

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catcher T

01-22-2006, 12:44 PM

I have seen the same rescue groups in the north like diggitydogs states,,I got a call from a women that adopted a dog from a very well known group here,,the dog was terribly sick,,was going to get better,,needed lots of medical,,the dog was returned and the rescue group put him up for adoption the next day,,sick and all,,this was not the first time for this group,,their are a hand full of rescues that do it right,,the rest are border line neglect if not out and out animal cruelty,,I don't have a problem if someone does rescues on a very small scale and can't afford all the shots,,they do however are required by law in most states to fix serious injurys and anything that causes the dog/cat pain and torture. The same goes for the city dog pounds they are not exempt from animal cruelty laws,,I have seen some horrific things there to

portraitz

01-25-2006, 01:49 AM

I have a problem with requiring fenced yards. I lived in a city rowhouse for 25 years, my dogs got walked 3 times a day, and they LOVED it! I feel guilty now that I have a yard that I am so lazy I don't walk them often.

But in the city environnment, EVERYONE had to walk their dogs, not only did the dogs become friends in their romp space, but so did the humans! I met wonderful people I would never have met if it hadn't been for not having a yard, and frankly? How DO you socialize a dog that is kept in it's own yard all the time?

My dogs...a pit mix and a 15 lb "mutt terrier" played with every size and type dog...from poodles to rotties. No fighting, cause they were ALL socialized from living in the city.

I have been doing work with some rescues, I'm doing an art project using only rescues as my models, and the folks have been wonderful.

I'm sure there's exceptions...like anything.

Oh...and you mean dogs aren't supposed to sleep in your bed? How do you keep your toes warm?? :D

DiggityDogs

01-25-2006, 03:30 AM

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StarWhisper

01-25-2006, 06:18 PM

Whether a group requires a fenced in yard varies...I require a fenced in yard for the most part but have also made exceptions depending on other circumstances...it's not completely black and white and not having a fenced in yard is not an immediate disqualification for adoption.

Truthfully I would hope that everyone who adopts that does have a fenced in yard still takes their dogs out on a walk on a leash daily, as it is great exercise and a wonderful way to socialize.

I have a large yard myself (fenced in) and I still walk my dog a few times a day, the yard is used more for private training and obedience work.

If someone does not have a fenced in yard and the group they are looking to rescue from requires one ask questions and see what the options are...Be honest about your situation...and see if there is anything that can be done..

Some groups may make exceptions, others may not..but it never hurts to ask...

LuvGSD

01-26-2006, 09:49 PM

The reason this is maddening is the fact that there are many other dogs that need advocacy and good forever homes, the time and man power spent decieving this woman could have been spent in the well being of another dog! Many rescue groups do go too far, they should not lower their standards, but be more reasonable...there are a lot of little canine souls out their that needs help!

DiggityDogs

01-26-2006, 09:59 PM

my point exactly! Amen!!

ACDlover

02-11-2006, 05:59 PM

accidents happen. children veer away from their parents and get lost at the supermarket, playground, toy store etc. do they get taken away from us when they are found, no. it shouldnt be different for dogs. it is a natural thing for children and pets to want to explore beyong their boundaries. no one is perfect and that woman should not have been judged like that , if she was so horrible of a dog owner she wouldnt have looked for her dog and went through all that she would just have got another one. i remember when my cat went missing. i put up about 200 flyers in my neighborhood alone. no joke. i really went crazy. i waited for few days, while still driving around and asking people if they saw my cat. i even recruited friends to ask around and posted online and in supermarkets, i went to all the shelters and cat rescue places within 50 miles of me. i was mentally distraught beyond believe. so about two days after she went missing. i get a phone call at home. its about my cat. my hopes are raised and im like oh my god thank god someone has her. this lady that called went on and on for like 15 minutes about my cat. asking all these questions about how i can identify her and was it really my ad that i put up. so i was like ok lady do you have my cat or not cause you called the number on it im talking to you obviously it was me. she says no, she doesnt have my cat and hasnt seen it. she was calling cause she wanted to know the kind of person i was and was irate at me cause i posted my lost cat ad over her weekend garage sale ad. and went on to (sorry folks) bitch to me about it. you can believe how i felt after that. how can someone think that their garage sale is more important then a life? and, im sure she put up more garage sale signs , and it wasnt even me posting the flyers my sister helped me out and shes 15. does this lady want to make a young kid feel even worse for looking for our family because of that. i thought that was horrible. you never know with people now. i wish there was more actual community around me. no not everyone loves animals, not all pet owners are the same. but my point is theres a difference between accidents and neglect and abuse. and alot of unhappy people like to judge how others care for them.

grawlgirl

02-13-2006, 05:45 AM

Diggitydog you are 100% correct, just read the messages on petfinder.
Rescue groups have gone insane. Does not matter to them what you or any one else thinks. They probably are good judges of abuse cases. That's what they care about most rather than finding good homes for the pets they already rescued. They need lots of training in what makes a good pet ower. Many of them are on sites like this one aruging instead out finding homes for pets. It's not alway a yard, fence or where the pet sleeps. I can agree with having a home inspection but it should be to help the adopter understand what he/she needs to fix/repair for the pets safety. If there are several things the interviewer is worried about, the rescue group should set up classes to educate the adopter. Just don't say No if there is a chance of giving a pet a life time home. Listen up rescuers, adopters are getting sick of you and your tactics.
As for your friend in Dallas, I would have taken it all the way to Crawford Tx.

DiggityDogs

02-13-2006, 06:05 AM

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crestie_rsq

02-20-2006, 01:51 AM

I think more understanding is needed from both parties.

The question we all need to ask ourselves...both rescuers and potential adopters is what is best for the animals, that is after all what we all want is it not?

What's best for the animals?

StarWhisper....you and I are on exactly the same page. The rescue group I volunteer for also has very stringent guidelines on approving adoptions, and once one is approved to adopt, does not guarantee they will get the dog they want. We do not adopt on a first come, first serve basis and never will. Foster parents have final say on who adopts dogs in their care. They know the dog better than anyone else and know what type of home environment for which it is best suited. By doing adoptions this way, we have an incredibly low "return" rate and the majority of dogs that are returned to us are due to life circumstances and nothing to do with the dog itself.

We microchip all dogs that come into our rescue group and many of us register those chips in our own names or the rescue group's name so should that dog ever end up in a shelter, pound, etc., we will be notified. Our contract also guarantees the right to take custody of the dog for breach of contract.

I have a foster dog right now that is not suited for a home with children under 14 yrs of age. People do not take the time to read or listen, or just choose to ignore information given about the dogs and the homes they are best suited for and then get their panties in a wad because the foster parent says no to approving the adopter. In our rescue group, once someone is approved to adopt they can apply for any dog, but it's the foster parent who makes the final determination and approves the adopter for the dog in their care.

We do not allow our dogs (1) to be left outside unattended, (2) to be adopted to home that uses tie outs or electronic collars/fencing; We do ask questions about (3) where the dog will sleep; (4) if it will be allowed on furniture, (5) grooming practices, and (6) if they're knowledgeable about the breed. Why: (1) & (2) are self-explanatory; (3) & (4) to determine if the adopter is more worried about their home appearing as though a dog does not live there rather the being a part of the family; and (5) & (6), you'd be surprised how many people apply to adopt a HL Chinese Crested because they believe there is little to no grooming involved. When, in fact, caring for a hairless dog is far more work than caring for a coated dog.

I've been dealing with one of my local shelters about an American Hairless Terrier that was turned in because "it had skin issues and needed bathing every 2-3 days." Now, AHTs do not generally have the same skin issues as Cresties (blackheads, acne, pearly cysts), but they can be very allergic to foods, various clothing materials, and other environmental factors. This poor AHT was suffering from an allergy that went untreated for too long and she got a staph infection. Vet prescribed Abx (not long enough, however) and medicated shampoo baths every 2-3 days. The owner just didn't want to deal with it so he/she turned her into the shelter.

People are idiots and do not take the time to do any research into a breed before they decide they want one...whether it be from a breeder, shelter or rescue group. I have a standard "scare" letter that I send to all applicants initially, and if they don't reply to the letter, their app does not get processed. It's the only way to weed out the ones who are not serious about adopting and made fully aware of all the "baggage" that can come with rescued animals, as well as the care involved with Chinese Cresteds.

People tell me that it's harder to adopt one of my dogs than it is a human child....you betchya and I'm proud of it. These dogs have been through enough, the last thing they need is to get placed into a home where they'll be miserable, improperly cared for, or shoved from home to home because I didn't screen the app carefully enough.

DiggityDogs

02-20-2006, 03:30 PM

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crestie_rsq

02-20-2006, 05:53 PM

I do have one question, though. I'm curious as to why an adoption group would care whether or not the dog would be allowed on the furniture.

In general it's to help determine the mindset of the applicant and how they approach having a dog, especially a toy/companion dog, in their home. But, if you spend much time around Cresties, then you'll see just how special they are. They truly are unique and unlike any other breed I've been around. I tell people they are part dog, part cat, part toddler & part monkey. Cresties are very much people oriented and need to be part of the family. They do not do well in homes where they're told to go lay in their crate or in the corner for hours upon end with only an occasional pat on the head or belly rub. CCs do not usually require extensive exercise (although some do in order to work out all the ornierness), but all of them require their lap time daily...all day long if you'd let them...and need positive human interactions. If they dont' get it the the most common way of acting out is to revert in housebreaking (the #1 reason why CCs are turned in by owners).

Rarely do we get a rescue in with any type of aggressive behavioral issues, in fact, just the opposite. In all the time I've been with Crest-Care, we've only gotten in one aggressive dog (and no one could blame him the life he lived prior to coming to us). These dogs are evaluated by a behaviorist to see if they can be rehabilitated. If it's determined the dog cannot be rehabilitated, it is offered to one of our members for adoption, but will never be placed up for adoption by the general public. If none of the members can adopt the dog, we have no alternative but to humanely euthanize, but we exhaust all possible rehab/training avenues before making such a final decision. Fortunately, that is a very rare occurrence. I'm happy to say the one aggressive guy we've gotten in was adopted by one of our members and he is doing quite well, but he is NEVER allowed on the furniture, in the bed, etc. because of his alpha tendencies and his desire to be top dog in the home. He is intentionally kept as the omega dog in her pack....chaos would reign within if she treated him any differently.

StarWhisper

02-20-2006, 06:10 PM

People tell me that it's harder to adopt one of my dogs than it is a human child....you betchya and I'm proud of it. These dogs have been through enough, the last thing they need is to get placed into a home where they'll be miserable, improperly cared for, or shoved from home to home because I didn't screen the app carefully enough.

Bravo Crestie_rsq! And from one rescuer to another, Thank you and bless you for all you do for these beautiful animals...

You said it all and I hope that maybe someone looking in on rescue workers from the outside have some understanding of what we want to accomplish...

Its not about finding homes as fast as we can, its about finding a forever home for these dogs.

A previous poster on this thread Grawlgirl, made a post I found offensive, the most offensive part of it is it is written by someone who is not involved in rescue and has no intimate knowledge on how rescue works...

So I want to clarify a few things:

They probably are good judges of abuse cases. That's what they care about most rather than finding good homes for the pets they already rescued.

You are right there, sadly myself and others involved in rescue have intimate knowledge of abuse cases, I can tell you stories that will tear up your soul and break your heart and make you want to run out and volunteer at your local shelter...and make it so clear for you to understand why rescue workers are so strict in their adoptions.

How DARE you say we don't care about finding good homes for the pets we rescued? Has it ever for one second occured to you that because we care is why it is so difficult to find good homes for these animals? Has it ever occured to you that in the time we have these animals, in the time that we are rehabiliating them and making it so they are suitable for adoption that they steal a part of our hearts and when we look at them an urge of protection sweeps over us as we look into soulful eyes promising them never again will they be dumped.....These are more than just dogs that were dumped and given up..They are each individual special and unique creatures that have touched my soul in different ways..in thier time with me they become part of my family and I will be damned if just anyone gets them..I know how wonderful each of my rescues are (I also know thier flaws)..Only the truly worthy will get one of my rescues.

Many of them are on sites like this one aruging instead out finding homes for pets.

And I can argue that with "And most potential pet owners are on sites arguing about how mean rescue workers are instead of looking at why they were turned down for adoption. So what is it now people are allowed to bash rescuers but rescuers are not allowed to comment? That is the biggest load of BS I have ever heard.

It's not alway a yard, fence or where the pet sleeps. I can agree with having a home inspection but it should be to help the adopter understand what he/she needs to fix/repair for the pets safety.

The things that most rescue groups require are very basic and easy to understand why they are required if one thinks about it...Lets take the fenced in yard for example...Now if someone doesn't have the common sense to understand why a fenced in yard is needed chances are they are not suitable as a pet owner..Seriously in rescue we do not make up requirements that are impossible for potential owners to understand the reasoning behind if they put some effort into it..

If there are several things the interviewer is worried about, the rescue group should set up classes to educate the adopter.

You know I am sure that some of us would love to do this but between caring for the dogs we take in, not to mention our own personal lives it is unfair to imply that rescue workers should set up a class to educate adopters...It would be nice if we could but honestly how much time do you think we have? The truth is potential adopters should educate themselves before they even make that phone call and say they want to adopt...It is not fair to expect rescue workers to teach potential adopters the basics of responsible pet ownership.

Just don't say No if there is a chance of giving a pet a life time home. Listen up rescuers, adopters are getting sick of you and your tactics.

And I frankly am sick of every person out there that wants a dog thinking their desire to have a pet is good enough reason for them to be able to have one.

Do you know why adoptions are so difficult? Because even though the majority of people who call me and inquire about adopting a GSD are nice people only about 2% of them are worthy of sharing their life with this breed.

On a personal level I have liked many of the individuals I have screened for adoptions but there's more to it than that.

I don't know what world you are living in, but the reality is rescue is not as simple and easy as you want to make it sound..You seem to be under the impression that all I have to do is wait for a call from someone who wants to adopt, say yes...give them a quick pet class on pet education 101, take the dog to thier home drop it off and everything is happily ever after...Thats not how it works...and I am so sick of potential adopters thinking it is that easy.

I would higly suggest that anyone who wants to continue to criticize how rescuers do things to take time to volunteer as a foster home...

See whats it really like...Get to know these dogs intimately, the good and the bad of them..Allow these dogs in your hearts the way those of us who rescue do and then come back here and tell me that rescue workers should make adoptions easy on potential pet owners.

crestie_rsq

02-21-2006, 02:10 AM

Excellent post, Star.

If there are several things the interviewer is worried about, the rescue group should set up classes to educate the adopter.

You know I am sure that some of us would love to do this but between caring for the dogs we take in, not to mention our own personal lives it is unfair to imply that rescue workers should set up a class to educate adopters...It would be nice if we could but honestly how much time do you think we have? The truth is potential adopters should educate themselves before they even make that phone call and say they want to adopt...It is not fair to expect rescue workers to teach potential adopters the basics of responsible pet ownership.

People fail to remember that the majority of people who do rescue work have full-time jobs, families, and everything else that goes along with life and they rescue because of their love of the breed (or animals in general). While I only foster my breed, I do volunteer at a local shelter, I volunteer for more than several all breed rescue transport groups, I'm active in my local chinese crested breed club, and hold down a full-time job. I have my hands full enough, it is not my responsibility to teach an applicant anything...my responsibility is to the foster dogs in my care.

On average each of my foster spends 5-6 months in my home, some shorter, some longer. I bawl my eyes out every time one leaves, even though I know it's going to an awesome home. Our rescue group also requires quarterly updates from the adopter to the foster parent for the first year after adoption. However, I've not had an instance yet that I'm not updated on at least a monthly basis. Why, because the adopters have become like family and they know the depth of my feelings for their adopted dog and my honest desire to ensure that all goes smoothly for them and the dog. A rescuer cannot fully know a dog's temperament, personality, quirks, etc. in a couple of short weeks. We are not a shelter or pound where all you have do to is fill out a short questionnaire, pay the adoption fee, and go home all in the same day. It's because we get to know the dog and the home/lifestyle for which it is best suited that the adoptions work.

Rescuing is the sweetest heartache one will ever know and I don't apologize one bit for the stringent guidelines to adopt.

Raye

02-21-2006, 03:28 AM

your type of rescue group is just the BS I am taking about,,unsupervised outside? give me a break,,we are talking dogs here,,I have had one or two get away while I am watching them,,it happens. These are all the reasons I go to the shelter myself,,so I don't have to fill out forms asking me what my income is and where I work and all that other personal info that I won't answer to get a dog,,I take better care of my dogs then most ppl do their kids and would not want to have to do things your way

Her type of rescue, IMO, sounds like her dog's are getting some of the best homes possible. I see nothing wrong with this as long as her dogs aren't being put down because a lack of good homes.

Being outside unsupervised is wholly irresponsible regardless of the circumstances. I understands accidents do happen; I've accidentally had my dogs or cats get out unnoticed (when accepting a package, doors getting left open accidentally, etc.) and not realized it til a few minutes later.

But purposefully being left out unsupervised is irresponsible regardless. Dogs often get stolen or kidnapped; for dog baiting or worse. Dogs get poisoned because neighbors think their aggressive or annoying (this has happened to friends of mine). Dogs get loose (dig under fences, climb over them, people open gates and don't close them) and get hit by cars, stolen, or worse.

It's irresponsible to leave them outside unsupervised. Period.

noonansmith

02-21-2006, 02:48 PM

I am having major trouble with some rescue groups. I am trying to rescue a pup so my current pup can have a friend to play with and also because I would like to have another dog. My current dog is safe, loved and happy. However, i have been turned down by rescue groups because of one reason and they do not take anything else into account. I have no fence...I don't live in the same state...i have a large dog...A fence doesn't prove whether a home is safe or not...if there were other reasons along with that one reason, ok, not a big deal, but if they look at my application and say...she doesn't have a fence, she's unfit to provide a loving home...that's wrong...and as for not living in a state...if i am willing to drive 6 hours once or as many times as it takes, what should that matter...i am currently in contact with a group who is internet based and they are going to find someone local to do the home visit for them...and the group that turned me down bc of my large dog was the worst...they listed 10 reasons why they say no, not telling me which was my reason so i had to assume it was because i have a large dog...and i didn't get a call to see if my large dog is aggressive towards little dogs, which he is not...he lets them bite him and he sits there and takes it...

there are soooooooooooo many dogs that need homes...and these people are making it so more dogs need homes...some people get so frustrated that they go to a backyard breeder or a puppy mill...my mom told me i should go to a pet store bc i would still be saving a dog...i won't but it is soo hard to try to rescue a dog...it almost seems easier to adopt a child! I am in contact with one group that approved my application but i have to go through 6 steps to get a dog...and i unfortunately can't just go to a shelter to get a dog...i have allergies and my allergist said i should stick w/ a maltese...which u really can only find through breeders and rescue groups...and i don't have an extra grand hanging around to pay a breeder...i can afford a dog and too feed and take care of a dog...but i am not paying what breeders charge...

my mom used to help a greyhound rescue group and i know that these groups have to be somewhat strict to make sure a dog goes to a good home...i do understand...but if u make it too strict and say no based on stupid things like no fence and that's the only reason no is being said, a ton of loving homes are being missed out on...and someone could say all the right things, lying through their teeth and have the fence and get the dog and beat the dog...

crestie_rsq

02-21-2006, 05:41 PM

I am having major trouble with some rescue groups. I am trying to rescue a pup....I have no fence...I don't live in the same state...i have a large dog...

Many rescues do have a fenced in yard requirement, many don't. We do it on a dog by dog basis. With Cresties, some are very agile and because of their prehensile toes are excellent climbers and can scale a 6 foot chain link fence with ease. Others, such as all of mine, would no more think of trying to climb a fence than they would about jumping into our pool. I do not have a fenced yard, we do have an area off our deck that is fenced just for them, but it is basically just a big run for pottying purposes.

and as for not living in a state...if i am willing to drive 6 hours once or as many times as it takes, what should that matter

Many local shelters/rescue groups do not allow their dogs to go outside of a certain distance for the mere fact if the adoption does not work out, they can easily get the dog back. When you go through nationwide rescue groups such as ours, that is not usually an issue because should the dog need to be turned back over to us, we have reps all across the country. Obviously, there are exceptions but again, that determination is made on a dog by dog basis.

there are soooooooooooo many dogs that need homes...and these people are making it so more dogs need homes

That is not true at all, they're picky because they want to ensure the dog(s) goes to the best possible home....a forever home, and one that the dog will be safe, well cared for and loved & cherised for the remainder of it's life.

...some people get so frustrated that they go to a backyard breeder or a puppy mill...my mom told me i should go to a pet store bc i would still be saving a dog...

It's this mentality that creates the need for rescue groups. They go buy the pet store or BYB puppy and then when it is unhealthy and costs a fortunute in vet fees, or has socialization and/or temperament issues, they don't think twice about dumping it in a shelter because they don't want to spend the time, money or energy to give it a good quality of life or provide the training needed to make it a well rounded family pet. I'm not saying that you would do this, but it's a very common practice and one of the biggest reasons why dogs end up in rescue in the first place.

I am in contact with one group that approved my application but i have to go through 6 steps to get a dog...and i unfortunately can't just go to a shelter to get a dog...i have allergies and my allergist said i should stick w/ a maltese...which u really can only find through breeders and rescue groups...and i don't have an extra grand hanging around to pay a breeder...i can afford a dog and too feed and take care of a dog...but i am not paying what breeders charge...

Why apply then if you're not willing or unable to go through all the steps they require? Why should you get preferential treatment over anyone else?

but if u make it too strict and say no based on stupid things like no fence and that's the only reason no is being said, a ton of loving homes are being missed out on...and someone could say all the right things, lying through their teeth and have the fence and get the dog and beat the dog...

The guidelines are not "stupid things" they're there for a reason. Let's use an analogy here. Say you were looking for a babysitter and had found two persons, one smokes & drinks, the other just drinks. Would you decide to leave your child with the one who drinks because she doesn't smoke too? I think not, you'd continue your search until you found one that met YOUR guidelines.

If rescuing is not for you, then join a maltese specific chat group so you can learn who the responsible, ethical breeders are and go from there. Everyone seems to be under the misguided notion that all breeders sell their purebred pups for big bucks. At least in my breed, that couldn't be farther from the truth. Only the millers and BYBers sell pet quality pups for outrageous prices. I know many well known, responsible, ethical breeders who regularly sell their pet quality pups for $300 or less, and in some instances even give the dog for merely the cost of the spay/neuter. Their goal is to find the perfect home for their puppies, not to line their pockets. Anyone who spends thousands of dollars for a pet quality dog has taken the easy way out & quite simply done little to no research into the breeder. Our society is such an instant gratification society and if people would just take the time to do some research and be willing to wait rather than demand something right this instant, they'd find what they're looking for.

catcher T

02-22-2006, 12:07 PM

StarWhisper

02-22-2006, 01:33 PM

give me a break,,u can't compare humans to dogs,,

Where were dogs compared to humans?

my dog are not allowed on the furniture,,they are dogs,,

And if you choose not to let your dogs up on furniture that is up to you I love having my dogs up on furniture, and I especially love the fact they are well manner enough to not just jump up but will sit there patiently awaiting an invite.

My dogs are dogs, and as dogs they are pack animals...they are not excluded from the family they are part of it.

one of my dogs uses a tie out,,the other too are trained to not leave the property,,

And I am sorry for your dog that is tied up, I am even sorrier for your dog that you are willing to put your pride in the way of its safety. I know the training my dogs received. They have accomplished and earned the right to be bragged and boasted about through their obedience and training...Would I for one second ever think their training is fool proof? Absolutely not. You risk your heart and take chances with your dogs and believe they are 100% solidly trained and nothing in the world will cause them to disobey...You trust that your dogs are safe outside alone unsupervised and trust that nothing will happen to them.

I made a commitment to my animals to do everything in my power to ensure their safety not gamble with it.

alot of rescues make it so hard to adopt,,its ridiculous,,I would just never answer those questions

Then you would never adopt from a rescue simple as that.

You are exactly the reason why people find it so difficult to get a dog from rescue...They come in with a pompous attitude saying, "It's just a dog, I intend to leave it tied outside, and if the dog gets trained real well I don't even need to tie it up"..

That attitude right there is exactly why so many homes are turned down for adoption...because people think that substandard care is acceptable for these animals.

Let me again clarify, in rescue we are not out to find immediate homes for these animals, our goal is to find them forever worthy homes.

DFrost

02-22-2006, 02:50 PM

Having adopted many dogs for inclusion into our working dog program, I've seen first hand the good and the bad, shelters, pounds and rescues. Generally we have a good working relationship with many of the facilities. One in particular however, really got my goat. I was asked to look at a Labrador to see if we could us it in our program. The dog was turned in to the agency because it was "unruly" and hard to control. I went to evaluate the dog. After my evaluation was complete, I went in to sign the paperwork only to be told, they would not adopt the dog to me, because they didn't approve of what we do with the dogs. I was, to say the least, a bit angry over that statement. I informed the person that I could assure them, dogs in our program (it is a law enforcement canine program) were treated better than 90% of the dogs that were adopted. We are constantly in the public eye, the dogs are required to be seen by a vet twice a year minimum. They are trained, worked, cared for on a daily basis and drive around in a chauffer driven automobile, fed a high quaility diet and more importantly, become a full partner to their handler. This has only happened on a couple of rare occasions and usually, we end up with the dog anyway. For the most part, rescues to a great job in very tough environment. Knowing they can't save them all, they do thier best.
I always said, the worst part of my job is seeing all the dogs I can't help.

DFrost

crestie_rsq

02-22-2006, 02:58 PM

give me a break,,u can't compare humans to dogs,,my dog are not allowed on the furniture,,they are dogs,,one of my dogs uses a tie out,,the other too are trained to not leave the property,,alot of rescues make it so hard to adopt,,its ridiculous,,I would just never answer those questions

I would choose to keep all the fosters that came into my care for the remainder of their days before I ever adopted any out to applicants with your attitude. For that matter, no responsible, ethical breeder would sell you one of their dogs either.

Tie outs are one of the biggest dangers to dogs. Gee, I bet you use a choke collar too and have effectively doubled the chances that one day you'll look out your window and find that your dog has hung itself. That's something to brag about, isn't it?

And yes, I can compare humans and dogs, they are no less your responsibility. When you decide to bring an animal into your home, it is YOUR responsibility & duty to ensure their safety, well-being, and provide for all their needs. They rely on you for everything. The only difference is one hopes that when their child grows up it will take responsibility for it's own life....your animals will never grow up, they will depend on you for everything until they day they go to the bridge.

crestie_rsq

02-22-2006, 03:05 PM

The dog was turned in to the agency because it was "unruly" and hard to control. I went to evaluate the dog. After my evaluation was complete, I went in to sign the paperwork only to be told, they would not adopt the dog to me, because they didn't approve of what we do with the dogs. I was, to say the least, a bit angry over that statement. I informed the person that I could assure them, dogs in our program (it is a law enforcement canine program) were treated better than 90% of the dogs that were adopted. We are constantly in the public eye, the dogs are required to be seen by a vet twice a year minimum. They are trained, worked, cared for on a daily basis and drive around in a chauffer driven automobile, fed a high quaility diet and more importantly, become a full partner to their handler. This has only happened on a couple of rare occasions and usually, we end up with the dog anyway. For the most part, rescues to a great job in very tough environment. Knowing they can't save them all, they do thier best.
I always said, the worst part of my job is seeing all the dogs I can't help.
DFrost

Even I find that ridiculous....having grown up best friends with the daughter of a K9 police officer and his dogs, I know first hand what awesome lives they lead. What more could a dog ask for....gets to spend each & every waking moment side by side with it's owner/handler, has no idea that he/she is actually working instead of having fun & pleasing its' handler, and the dog & handler have a closer bond than many will ever have in any of their relationships, whether they be personal or with animals.

I hope you ended up getting that dog.

DiggityDogs

02-22-2006, 03:12 PM

..........................................

catcher T

02-22-2006, 03:45 PM

my dogs arent left outside,,they go out side,,go to the bathroom and come in,,one has to be on a tie out,,he will run,,the other two stay in the yard,,to go to the bathroom period,,my dogs are my dogs,,they are not my kids,,they are not human members of my family,,my dogs work,,one is a tracker,,the other,,is training in narcotics detection and tracking,,one is old and deaf. These dogs live very well,,but they work also.

StarWhisper

02-22-2006, 04:08 PM

DFrost, for what it's worth I do hope your program ended up getting that Lab, having seen firsthand the bond that canines in law enforcement share with their owners/handlers I know any dog going to such a program will be cherished and loved to no ends..

StarWhisper

02-22-2006, 04:18 PM

my dogs arent left outside,,they go out side,,go to the bathroom and come in,,one has to be on a tie out,,he will run,,the other two stay in the yard,,to go to the bathroom period,,

And it would be so difficult to ensure their safety by properly walking them on a leash? You may gamble with your dogs safety, responsible pet owners don't do such a thing.

my dogs are my dogs,,they are not my kids,,they are not human members of my family,,

Wow how unbelievably sad for you. They may not be human members of the family but that does not excuse the fact you have a commitment and responsibility to them.

Your lack of compassion to the animals that share your life make me think your more suited to a stuffed animal..if you have such an attitude why get an animal that is pack oriented by nature?

my dogs work,,one is a tracker,,the other,,is training in narcotics detection and tracking,,

I am not impressed that your dogs work, many of us here I am sure have dogs that work, and we still consider them members of the family. Because a dog works does not mean you can't share a close bond with them and treat them well.

one is old and deaf. These dogs live very well,,but they work also.

Wow you have an old deaf dog that you either tie up or allow to go outside freely and you have the nerve to say your dogs live very well when you don't even consider their safety.

I feel sorry for any dogs in your care.

catcher T

02-22-2006, 04:46 PM

well,I have come to the conclusion that no matter what I say u will think what ya will,,so be it.

DFrost

02-22-2006, 06:11 PM

We did get that dog, and the assurance from the General Manager of the agency that we would not have a repeat episode of that nature. The dog is currently a valued member of our canine program. We have since gotten several others as well.

DFrost

fluffypuppylover

02-22-2006, 07:13 PM

I'll step in here and comment on the first issue that was brought up, the rescues.

Rescues have a reason for being so picky. They love their dogs and want them in the best possible homes. Everyone has a differing opinion on what best is though. I agree, the requirements do seem to be getting harder and harder to fill. My mother recently wanted to adopt an elderly Rottweiler as a companion for her current Rottie. The current local rescue group refused because she feeds her dog raw and uses a harness to walk her. Nothing wrong with either of those things, but the rescue didn't like them, so she simply turned towards a Rottie breeder and she's now on a list where she will get an older Rottweiler from them. I think when you get picky to those proportions, there is a problem. We have a local Dachshund rescue who won't adopt to anyone under 30, who has kids, who hasn't had a Doxie before, or who doesn't own their home. I suppose the children rule is warranted, but i fail to see how you can make a blanket rule that everyone under 30 is unacceptable or that you must own your own home. If this were a Pit Bull rescue, I could see that actually, since apartments rarely allow them and maturity is key with the Pit's temperment and all the breed bullying that goes on with them. But all the rules are there for some sort of reason, and you don't have to adopt from them. There are local humane societies, the pound, and even sometimes the newspaper will have pets being given away because the family is moving or something. Sure, that's not a true rescue, but the dog needs a home still. No one is forcing you to contact a rescue, and if one turns you down, there are thousands of others who may not, unless you are turned down for something universal like not having a fixed pet. They don't all have the same questions or requirements. When I went to get my own dog, I was turned down by one rescue because I'm fairly young and all the dogs I've "had" in my lifetime were mostly ones that were technically owned by parents, but another saw I was responsible, had great references, and was stable enough to have a dog, so I rescued my Abbie.

crestie_rsq

02-22-2006, 08:46 PM

My mother recently wanted to adopt an elderly Rottweiler as a companion for her current Rottie. The current local rescue group refused because she feeds her dog raw and uses a harness to walk her. Nothing wrong with either of those things, but the rescue didn't like them

Now that is the most assinine reason I've ever heard. I know there are still some people out there who don't believe in feeding raw, but it's a helluva lot better than feeding some crappy kibble like Purina, Iams, Science Diet...or worse. Geez, wonder what they'd think of the home-cooked diet my kids get. And what's the deal with the harness? I don't understand that one at all. I have one that will practically hang himself on a regaular lead, but walks like a perfect angel on a harness.

We have a local Dachshund rescue who won't adopt to anyone under 30, who has kids, who hasn't had a Doxie before, or who doesn't own their home.

The age requirement seem a bit strict to me as well. I understand they probably believe that by the time one hits their 30s they're a bit more stable and settled down, especially if they are homeowners...but that is not always the case. (shoot, I have a 50+ yr old friend who I'd love to get her Peke away from her, she's never there to spend anytime with the poor thing, here priorities include bar hopping & cruising for men, poor Maggie [the dog] is at the bottom of the list). Doxies are known for their digging capabilities and maybe they've had issues with adopters dumping dogs in shelters after their landlords made them get rid of the dog for digging everywhere. Who knows, but I, like you, don't believe it should be a blanket rule. Each potential adopter and each dog is different.

As for kids, Doxies do tend to have back issues and I could understand not adopting to homes with children under the age of say 10-12 or so. We take the kids issue on a dog-by-dog basis. I have a foster now who totally freaks out when young kids are around and he will only go to a home with no kids or kids over 14 yrs of age, but yet we have another in my District that we will ONLY adopt to a home with children because he adores kids and is being fostered in a home with young children.

They don't all have the same questions or requirements. When I went to get my own dog, I was turned down by one rescue because I'm fairly young and all the dogs I've "had" in my lifetime were mostly ones that were technically owned by parents, but another saw I was responsible, had great references, and was stable enough to have a dog, so I rescued my Abbie.

You are exactly right, not all rescue organizations are the same or follow the same guidelines. If people don't want to answer the questions in any given application, then don't apply. But don't make such blanket statements that all rescue groups are alike because they are not. We will adopt dogs to homes with pets that have not been altered due to health reasons, as long as we're given something in writing or allowed to speak with the dog's vet to confirm the health condition. None of our dogs go out unaltered and if they can't be for health reasons, they will stay within our group and never be adopted out. Our rescue group even has show breeders as members as well. Now, mind you, none of those show breeders do any fostering except on maybe a very short term basis, but they're always there when we need them for shelter pulls, transport assistance, fund raising, etc. IMO, if a breeder doesn't also get involved in the rescuing of their breed of choice, they are not an ethical, responsible breeder. My rescue group has an excellent relationship with many CC breeders....and others bad mouth us because we will not just give back one of their dogs that has made it's way to us. They must go through a all the same screening process as an applicant would, to include a home/kennel visit by one of our reps, as well as provide proof of their signed written contract (cuz they always say they have a "return to breeder" clause and that it was sold on limited registration). The only breeders we ever have any issues with are the millers and BYBers because, of course, they're too good to be put the the screening process and there's no way they'll show us their kennel. When we take a dog in, we have the releasing party (whether it's an individual or a shelter) sign a release waiver and gives us sole ownership of the dog. Legally, there's nothing a breeder can do to get the dog from us without going through our screening process.

vonissk

02-23-2006, 03:53 AM

I have read all the posts here and wow a lot of different things swirling around. One thing I would like to say about the first post is how sad that was and I really hope the rescue group gets the heck sued out of them for how they treated that woman.

I have tried several times to take infosters for any German Shepherd Dogs or any of the Belgians or Dutch Shepherds. I have a perfect place for it--I don't work so I am home 24/7 and I can't seem to do that. They won't even do a home check on me. OK because I wanted to help I consider that a lost cause.

I have never tried to adopt a rescued dog because I prefer to buy one from a breeder and answer their questions. I feel from the adoption agencies I have seen I have been able to get a lot farther with breeders whom I know and they know me and we are able to talk about the important things. A fenced yard or my vet references are not important to a breeder; pedigrees and where my dogs come from is more important and what I plan to do with the dog, regarding breeding and titling.

To Diggity Dog from Dallas, I lived in Dallas for over 20 years and I absolutely agree with you about their attitute. I know someone in that area who calls themselves a rescuer, none of the dogs are up to date on any shots, no pens are cleaned, her house is a disaster because she is a hoarder. She takes dogs out of people's yards if it is not fenced and never tries to either find the homes or tries to adopt any dogs. She has no 501C yet the rescuers who do have give her dog food that people make legitimate donations to so she can hoard more dogs. I have tried several times to turn her in and to no avail. So I want no part of that because if rescuing means putting a dog in a cage for the rest of its life then I feel so sorry for the animals.

Just some thoughts. Minta

grawlgirl

02-24-2006, 06:05 AM

Starwhisper, you know nothing about me. I realize the problems involved. Have dealt with many types of dogs, large and small, along with horses and cattle. Rescurers become hoarders thinking there is no one out there that is suitable to adopt. Rescuers work too close to the rescue/abuse end of things but that is not where it stops. To truly be effective in finding a dogs forever home, you must educate the general public over and over. If not you, who is going to teach the responsibility of pet ownership. Without education, the saga continues. I am offended that you can not find the time to teach responsible pet ownership yet it is difficult to find good homes. Maybe with your help, you could help a potential adopter become truly worthy. Remember,
it's because we care.

StarWhisper

02-24-2006, 02:52 PM

Starwhisper, you know nothing about me. I realize the problems involved. Have dealt with many types of dogs, large and small, along with horses and cattle.

If you are aware, really aware of the problems then you would understand why rescuers made it so difficult to adopt one of their animals. It is a simple fact people that often criticize how rescue work is done have no intimate personal experience with this "job".

Rescurers become hoarders thinking there is no one out there that is suitable to adopt. Rescuers work too close to the rescue/abuse end of things but that is not where it stops.

Hoarders hardly, being a hoarder implies that one takes in too many animals to properly care for, the people who become hoarders are not rescuers, they have gone off the deep end...no serious rescuer is going to take in so many animals that it affects the care they can provide...

To truly be effective in finding a dogs forever home, you must educate the general public over and over.

I expect the general public to have basic knowledge on responsible canine ownership before they consult me about getting one of my rescues. It is a simple fact..I work with a breed that can often be dominanting and that will not hesistate to challenge for pack leadership. I need potential pet owners that have already done their homework and have studied the breeds, needs, and desires...not someone who wants a GSD because their "cool".

If not you, who is going to teach the responsibility of pet ownership. Without education, the saga continues.

Lets start with potential pet owners taking the time to read a good book..it is disheartening to notice how many people think they can learn about canines after they decide to adopt.

I am offended that you can not find the time to teach responsible pet ownership yet it is difficult to find good homes.

I am offended that you think it is my job to educate the public with the basics of responsible pet ownership..I am more than happy to answer questions about all aspects of care regarding the GSD, however I do not have time to teach the basics to someone who wants a dog then and there. I expect the basics to be known.

You seem to be under the impression that I don't have anything else to do with my time...and that is highly ignorant...My time goes to rehabiliating sick and neurotic GSD's that have developed illnessess, behavioral disorders, that are not trained, don't know what it's like to be touched with affection, ect...

My time is spent teaching these dogs that its alright to trust, my time is spent teaching them that its alright to be petted, that grooming feels good, that training is enjoyable, in some cases it is also shown curbing aggressive behavior and doing everything I can to make sure this animal will be suitable for adoption one day...

My time is spent caring for my own animals, animals that are my commitment and that depend on me for everything...My time is spent teaching and training my dogs to be good canine citizens so they are welcome wherever we go..My dogs are therapy dogs, we have a commitment to sick children, I can't just drop that.

I have a fiance that needs my attention, I have a wedding coming up in a few months, We are planning for a family, the list goes on and on...

My schedule is very full..I don't simply have time to consult with potential adopters and teach them the basics when they want to adopt...if someone wants to learn long before even considering adopting that is another story entirely and I am happy to assist those people, but when someone contacts me saying they want to get a GSD and I ask them what experiences they have with the breed and they tell me "None, but they sure are smart dogs and I need something easy to train" my eyes roll and I know right then and there that person never even educated themeselves on the basics..I want adopters that are willing to take initiative and show they are commited to having a dog..

Maybe with your help, you could help a potential adopter become truly worthy. Remember,
it's because we care.

It is not me teaching someone that will make them worthy of adopting, its them showing they are worthy by proving they are dedicated to learning on their own first.

Your right its because we care, its because we care that adoption is so difficult.

vonissk

02-25-2006, 03:18 AM

Starwhisper, well said.........................

ibycus

02-26-2006, 11:17 PM

Couple of comments... I haven't read quite all the posts (getting to be a very long thread) so I appologize if this has already been brought up.

First thing... I understand first hand how difficult it is to give up a dog that you've welcomed in to your home. We started out fostering a 10 year old yellow lab, who is now a very welcome addition to our family (I also have a black lab who will be two in May).

What one has to be very careful as far as finding homes goes, is that you don't make any snap decisions. Just because you don't like someone or don't approve of how they live with their animals doesn't make them a bad pet owner.

For example, I live in a house without a fenced in yard also my younger guy has spent some time on a tie-out. I also let my dog outside without his collar on, on occaision. Further, I'm 24 years old, and a full time student. Oh and add insult to injury he has an outdoor dog run.
Does this make me a bad pet owner? I'm betting some of your alarm bells are going off, and you've already decided that I wouldn't be a suitable home for one of your rescues.

So let me explain some more. My yard is 2 1/2 acres, directly beside our property there is another ~3 acres of municipal reserve land. Fencing in the yard isn't as one might think. The tie out is not something that he spent any considerable time out on, but rather to get him used to being in the yard 'free' (we'd been having a problem that if he did get out, we didn't want to come back again, because it was so rare that he had free run of the yard).

The collar thing is because they don't wear their collars in the house, as I don't want them catching on anything, and accidentally hanging themselves. Sometimes though when we go outside, the collars and leashes aren't immediately available. As they both stick around the property pretty exclusively, I'm not worried about them running off (besides I watch them like a hawk when we're outside), and in the unlikely event that they did run off, they are both chipped and tattooed.

As for my age, I am the age that I am, but I can tell you that except for brief times around exams, they get a couple hours down at the off leash park on a nearly daily basis with me.

As far as the outdoor run goes, I don't trust Erwin alone in the house (nor do I know the old guy, Dempsey well enough to trust him.). When inevitably we do go out, if the weather is nice outside, I'll take them out to the run, rather than leave them cooped up in the house while we're not there (if at all possible though, they'll come with us)

Both dogs are part of my family and I wouldn't give them up for the world, but I would be worried if I'd gotten them from some over zealous rescue group, that someone could come in, and decide that I wasn't a fit pet owner, and take them away from me (hey maybe they'll drive by on one of the rare occaisions when Erwin's out in the yard on his tie-out and decide I leave him out there all the time).

StarWhisper

02-27-2006, 03:31 PM

First thing... I understand first hand how difficult it is to give up a dog that you've welcomed in to your home. We started out fostering a 10 year old yellow lab, who is now a very welcome addition to our family (I also have a black lab who will be two in May).

That's great. :)

What one has to be very careful as far as finding homes goes, is that you don't make any snap decisions. Just because you don't like someone or don't approve of how they live with their animals doesn't make them a bad pet owner.

Snap decisions, that is exactly why rescue workers are so selective in choosing suitable homes for their animals..It's not about my personal feelings on someone, it's about whether or not they can demonstrate to me that they are worthy of sharing their lives with my cherished breed.

For example, I live in a house without a fenced in yard also my younger guy has spent some time on a tie-out. I also let my dog outside without his collar on, on occaision. Further, I'm 24 years old, and a full time student. Oh and add insult to injury he has an outdoor dog run.
Does this make me a bad pet owner? I'm betting some of your alarm bells are going off, and you've already decided that I wouldn't be a suitable home for one of your rescues.

Does it make you a bad pet owner? It depends on how you look at it, I consider the tie out unsafe and would not adopt into a home that uses one, (Sorry if that is not what you want to hear but I am guessing that you want me to be honest) The fact that your yard is not fenced in is something I would take into consideration, providing you were willing to take the dog out and walk it properly on a leash, it all depends on the individual situation.

So let me explain some more. My yard is 2 1/2 acres, directly beside our property there is another ~3 acres of municipal reserve land. Fencing in the yard isn't as one might think. The tie out is not something that he spent any considerable time out on, but rather to get him used to being in the yard 'free' (we'd been having a problem that if he did get out, we didn't want to come back again, because it was so rare that he had free run of the yard).

My biggest concern with the tie out is the risk it comes with. Dogs have injured and killed themselves on tie outs..

The collar thing is because they don't wear their collars in the house, as I don't want them catching on anything, and accidentally hanging themselves.

The not wearing collar in the house does not make you a bad pet owner, heck my dogs do not wear collars when I have somewhere to go, their collars are also removed when I go to sleep, IOW when I or my fiance are not there to supervise their collars are removed for safety reasons, Your not keeping your collars on your dogs to prevent an accident is understandable but in the same sense I can't understand why you will not allow your dogs to wear collars inside but feel that using a tie out does not present a risk factor?

Sometimes though when we go outside, the collars and leashes aren't immediately available. As they both stick around the property pretty exclusively, I'm not worried about them running off (besides I watch them like a hawk when we're outside), and in the unlikely event that they did run off, they are both chipped and tattooed.

A chip and tattoo does not protect them from being hit by a car...nor does it protect them from a million other things that could happen if they did run off.

As for my age, I am the age that I am, but I can tell you that except for brief times around exams, they get a couple hours down at the off leash park on a nearly daily basis with me.

Your age does not concern me, nor does the fact you are a full time student. I don't expect adopters to be able to stay at home with their dogs 24/7..what I am looking for in adopters is someone who has their life together and wants a lifetime family member..Maturity is what I look for.

As far as the outdoor run goes, I don't trust Erwin alone in the house (nor do I know the old guy, Dempsey well enough to trust him.). When inevitably we do go out, if the weather is nice outside, I'll take them out to the run, rather than leave them cooped up in the house while we're not there (if at all possible though, they'll come with us)

Is it possible for you to set up a dog proof room indoors? If you don't trust a dog indoors alone then it is only logical not to trust them outdoors...from a safety factor they would be less likely to be hurt or injured in a properly set up dog safe room inside than to be allowed outdoors unsupervised on a tie out or in a run.

Is hiring a pet sitter an option? Maybe a friend or family member would be willing to come by and give them some exercise so they are not indoors all day and can get some fresh air, in the same token they could also be supervised.

Both dogs are part of my family and I wouldn't give them up for the world, but I would be worried if I'd gotten them from some over zealous rescue group, that someone could come in, and decide that I wasn't a fit pet owner, and take them away from me (hey maybe they'll drive by on one of the rare occaisions when Erwin's out in the yard on his tie-out and decide I leave him out there all the time).

You may love your dogs I am not doubting that and you may make your choices based on what you feel is best for them with what you got..That is fine...

I make my choices for suitable homes based on what I feel is best for these dogs.

greyote

03-24-2006, 01:58 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/fashion/thursdaystyles/23pets.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

seraphicia

03-26-2006, 01:10 AM

Years ago, I had my first experience of trying to adopt a dog at a rescue. I was younger and not at all involved in the animal community, and after we had selected a younger puppy who we were overjoyed to take home, we were being asked questions about our past pets, and honestly answered that two of our indoor-outdoor cats in the years before had been killed in the road by cars, and we were instantly turned down. My entire family was upset, and thought it was outrageous that they could decide with years old info that we weren't fit to bring home a companion for our dog. We didn't have a fence either, which they objected to after hearing about the cats. We ended up going to the local animal control shelter and adopting my lovely isabel without such a thorough questionarre. I chose Iz out of all of the other fun loving puppies because she seemed quiet and laid back, a good match for our george and as it turned out she had been severely abused and came with her share of issues that to this day we still continually work on. The following year I started volunteering with the very shelter that turned my family down. And in the years of volunteering since, I've learned that the decision that they made was the right one. The rescue I'm now a loyal volunteer for doesn't have a home visit policy, but I now do private fostering and I myself do. The whole experience of being turned down to adopt a dog has thankfully brought me to a place of awareness of the throw away society we live in that devalues our pets lives, and the necessity for more thorough adoption processes. My family was illequiped to deal with Iz, and the county pound didn't know her enough, nor could they afford to keep her around indefinitly or long enough to wait for the best home for her. We saved her life, and through the struggle of caring for her behavioral and temperment problems, I realized that the rescue who isn't flooded with dogs and so can get to know most each and every one, would've known we most likely wouldn't have worked out with her problems the way a more seasoned dog owning family could. In the time until starting to seriously get into volunteering and so be more involved and educated in the animal community, Isabels behaviors worsened, and she developed worse issues. It was more difficult to deal with her because she is part shepherd, and very active and we didn't have a fenced in yard at the time. We contemplated returning her to the shelter because we were not educated enough to deal with her issues the right way. Thankfully I started volunteering, and it saved her from being returned because my eyes were opened to the real life picture that she would most likely be put down on the spot if returned, or continue getting returned because most people like I was myself, aren't ready to deal with a dog with problems. In fact, most dogs at shelters are there because of basic problems that can be controlled with basic obedience. The minor problems often develop in dogs surrendered or abandoned at shelters or rescues because they've outgrown their eight week old puppy cuteness and their size when their once 'cute' behaviors start to cause problems that people don't want to deal with. Iz was a more severe case, but in any case, most dogs in shelters are between 6 months and 2 years, and are in the puppy stages without the puppy cute part, and have some manners that need to be learned. Rescues have the goal of finding FOREVER homes, if it weren't for my rescue, one and maybe more dogs may have been returned or and possibly put down including my Iz. Rescues are often more about education than just handling the overpopulation problem. As a volunteer I was able to learn and address Izabels problems. I know this is a long post and may seem like an anecdote or something, but basically I just want anyone thinking that rescuers are crazy and controlling as one person says in the article above, to know that from all of the experience I've gained, after being through the different things I have, I need to just say that as one of those supposed person turned 'mad' rescuer, it is in the best interest of the dog. I love my Iz, but from my experience I've learned that had the shelter we adopted her from been able to more appropriately gauge my experience or lack thereof, they'd know it could've very well turned out badly for her if it weren't for my involvement in the rescue. The rescue i now am a part of was just looking out for little sunshine as her name was, which found a more prepared home. It offends me to think that people see the rescue community as becoming controlling, and overbearing, and to think that the larger percent of us have anything but the dogs best interest in mind is obsurd and saddening. I personally needed to post my experience to reinforce my belief and support of more thorough adoption processes.

Stark

05-01-2006, 06:36 AM

I had a bad experience with a Psycho rescue volunteer who owned a mixed breed Pitbull and now she's an expert on everything dog. In my opinion most of these volunteers are fanatical weirdos who have no life and need to seek counseling. I have successfully competed in AKC/UKC Conformation, obedience and Schutzhund for the last twenty some years and this freak tells me I can't adopt a dog because I have an intact male already (GSD being trained for PSA) and why wasn't he neutered? We're talking a quality working dog and she wants to know why he isn't neutered, freak. The restrictions these freaks put on owners are ridiculous. Not everyone wants a fenced in yard, even though I have a privacy fence around my kennels I believe a fence is ugly and makes your property look bad. Or you get the ones that say the dog can't be outside in a kennel, it's a freakin dog. I don't see cows being kept inside,horses, goats etc.
One other thing, it makes me want to puke when I see these freaks out here advertising for donations to buy food and equipment. If you want to be all high and mighty use your own money and stop begging for others. You chose to foster a dog then you carry the expense. I kind of compare these freaks with the ones who stand in front of abortion clinics with their signs and blowing up buildings. How many of them offer to support a young woman and her baby after it's born:eek: :confused: If you really want to help the dog population get out and offer training classes FOR FREE and help want to be owners so that they can adopt the dogs. This is not directed at anyone in particular so please don't be offended, it's just how I feel after my experience.

Good Luck

crestie_rsq

05-01-2006, 07:20 PM

Sorry, but you are the freak. The majority of all rescues will not adopt to a home with unaltered animals....period. There are a few that will make exceptions to show homes, but that's it. As for fencing, some, not all, make that decision on a dog by dog basis.

Dogs DO NOT belong outside 27/4...they are not cows or goats, they are companion animals. I understand there is a difference between hunting/working dogs, but those are in the minority when it comes to rescue, most merely want a companion and no companion should be made to live outside in the elements 24/7.

Now tell me, how in the world do training classes help decrease the overpopulation? Do you think you can train a bitch to not go in heat? Neat trick....you could become rich off that one. Training classes have zip to do with the overpopulation problem.

I would venture a guess that the real reason you were turned down was for your flippant, high & mighty attitude and those were just excuses given to you. You would never get one of my dogs, I can tell you that much.

seraphicia

05-01-2006, 08:21 PM

Stark...your remarks intend to offend so don't try to say otherwise. Categorizing all rescues as psycho is plain stupid and you just seem angry at your own personal experience and so choose to unwisely characterize the person who turned you down and all other rescuers too. You aren't entitled to share a home with a rescue dog, and I nor many rescues(not necessarily shelters) would adopt to a home with an unaltered pet, unless you show some unwaivering competence and compassion and love that you seem to have a lack of possessing. Training IS part of the pet overpupulation problem. PEOPLE AREN'T TRAINED CORRECTLY. If they were, they wouldn't decide to abandon or surrender dogs because they're unwilling to teach their dogs manners or obedience, and if people were trained there wouldn't be an overpopulation problem because people would GET THEIR PETS FIXED. It seems you wrote that post out of bitterness and ignorance, and with the goal of ruffling feathers. One bad experience and you judge the many caring rescuers who help to deal with the unwanted dogs and puppies left in the wake of people perhaps such as yourself who fail to neuter their animals and make accidental litters. Certainly not all dogs necessarily NEED a fenced in yard however big or small, but it is the surest way to know a dog will have a safe and secure place to run and play or lounge and do their business. And crestie is 100% correct about the indoor dog remark you made. Dogs are pack animals and have an entirely different relationship to people than cows and goats and pigs do. They belong inside to live in a safe and comfortable and loving environment. No matter if they're handled daily or not, dogs that spend their lives in kennels don't have the same stroong loving bond or satisfied family life as dogs who live in the home.There is a distinction to be made. It's sad to think even with the very reasonable restrictions most rescues have, that an ignorant, bitter person like yourself would chose to instead just brush us off as freaks(I smell irony here) while we work day in and out out of our pocketbooks at times if not constantly, to just place them in loving forever families And lastly, as a lover and caretaker of pits and pit mixes, I imagine the woman who rejected you, like I most likely would've from your attitude, knows the grittiest problem about pet overpopulation and breed discrimination as only pit admirers do, and so is more restrictive in adoption criteria, as I typically am.

eagle12167

05-07-2006, 04:22 PM

who has decided that the rescue is all knowing and all seeing, if i must who made them god? they did. i have not tried to adopt a pet from a shelter or a rescue. i feel that there are alot of people trying to get rid of dogs that one does not need to go to a shelter or rescue. these people at the rescue seem a little to fanatical. who cares if you have a pet that is intact. that doesn't mean that they are going to become puppy mills. if the rescue has gone mad then report them to the proper authorities.
this sounds like the child protection services, you are an unfit parent because you have to work for a living. the people have let these zealots take over the world. show them that they are the minority and that we are the majority.
they will certainly soon learn the error of thier ways, if not stop going there and stop donating money to them.
this something that i have found to be repitious,first the guns, then smoking, then your pets,then your thoughts. what is the next thing that society is going to restrict, scratching your back in public? when will it stop? never, or until people realize that the average person is not going to take any more crap from these zealots of restriction and ban.

SiNNiK

05-08-2006, 09:38 AM

I would venture a guess that the real reason you were turned down was for your flippant, high & mighty attitude and those were just excuses given to you. You would never get one of my dogs, I can tell you that much.
well after trudging through 7 pages of this mess, i've seen plenty of this "flippant, high & mighty attitude" from crestie_rsq and StarWhisper, which i'm sure they'll justify, somehow.

before reading this thread, i didn't really care one way or another about rescue groups, now i feel as though i've been educated a little about it and find them reprehensible.

and one more thing, if you could find it in your hearts to use paragraphs (like StarWhisper), it makes everything so much easier to read, thank you and have a great day. :D

crestie_rsq

05-08-2006, 02:14 PM

Fabulous news....you'll never try to adopt a rescue animal, you don't appear to have the mentality to care for a pet rock, let alone a living, breathing, feeling creature who's already lived thru hell on earth and were one of the lucky ones who made their way into rescue. Animals are not disposable and it is my responsibility as their guardian to ensure they don't fall into the hands of people who think of them as anything BUT a family member. My ONLY responsibility is to the dogs in my care, and if one doesn't want to follow the rules and guidelines we have established for being eligible to adopt one of our dogs, then they can go get their pet from a miller/pet store or BYB, they don't give a crap who they sell their dogs to or what happens to them in the future.

Rescue dogs can have a lot of baggage and without rescue groups taking them in, rehabilitating them and showing them that not all people are cruel & heartless, they would never have a chance at being adopted. I have a 3 yr old dog (former puppymill dog) here who was very obviously beaten by a man or men. He has been with me 6 mo. now and he still will not let my husband anywhere near him if I am not in the room to reassure him (and even then he is very hesitant and looks to me for reassurance that all is okay). He trusts no one but me, and it took more than a month for me to earn his trust. Do you not agree that it would be a huge disservice to not only the dog, but to the adopters, if I let him go to a home with men where there is a high probability that he will act out with aggression? He will remain with me until I find the perfect home for him...one with no men, no young children, and the adopter MUST be prepared to earn his trust on his time table and not expect him to be an affectionate little lap dog from day one.

Each dog is unique and have their own special set of circumstances. I've had fosters that came in on death's door at the hands of millers, but they still trust in humans and love unconditionally. I also have an 8 yr old female here, she spent her entire life in a mill pumping out litter after litter only to be sold at a mill auction for $50 so she can go pump out puppies for another miller. Thankfully, she was purchased by a rescuer, fully vetted and then turned over to my rescue group for placement. She is the most loving little thing and will be a very easy placement because no matter what she lived through, she still trusts humans and wants nothing more than to be next to you. Others, such as the one mentioned above, whose spirits have been totally broken at the hands of humans, take much more time, effort, kindness and love to learn trust humans again.

All rescue groups have one main goal...to find the FOREVER home for their fosters. They've been through enough already, the last thing they need is to be adopted to a home where they will not thrive. We disclose everything about our dogs: the good, bad & ugly. We want no surprises because we want the dogs in the home best suited for the dog & the adopters. We want the adopters to be 100% aware of the dogs issues & shortcomings so it does not come back to us...or worse, get dumped yet again. If that makes us "high & mighty" then so be it because, as I said, my sole responsibility is to the dogs in my care, not to John Q Public who thinks rescuers are bleeding hearts.

And to Eagle....you really don't get it and there's no point in even addressing your post.

DiggityDogs

05-08-2006, 06:17 PM

..................

seraphicia

05-08-2006, 06:22 PM

The reasons for not adopting out an intact animal does NOT have a large part to do with puppy mills, you are mixed up in much of your information. Rather it is to try to combat the enormous pet overpopulation problem which forces shelters to put down millions of animals every year because people are irresponsible about preventing unwanted litters. You are correct about there being another large amount of dogs and cats not in shelters or rescues that are being rehomed by individual people or families due to change in circumstance. But there are still only so many homes, and some just end up in shelters anyway.

Eagle...you seem to have pushed your ideas about rescues to extremes, and you're incorrect in your assumptions and accusations. You're right that rescuers are in a minority, and that minority is just trying to help out with the surplus of mans best friend who've been victims of circumstance. Because of rescues and shelters and the work they've done in spaying/neutering dogs and cats, less dogs/cats/puppies and kittens are put down, and the method used to put hem down is becoming more humane. You're just caught up in your own negative feelings that are unjustified to see the whole picture, that we make a difference in the lives of countless companion animals. You couldn't take a job in the animal welfare field, you obviously don't have the compassion or the reason.

crestie_rsq

05-08-2006, 06:57 PM

I can agree with you crestie on most points... However, I don't feel that dogs carry baggage. We project baggage on to them, feel sorry for their situation, treat them differently than we may treat other dogs who have not had the experience, but at the same time that we're doing that I think we often teach the dog that hanging on to those feelings of fear is OK. I truly believe the best thing that can happen to a rescued dog who's been through abuse and neglect is that it can go to a home where it will be treated like the abuse never happened. You wouldn't excuse a child with abnormal behavior because he was abused- you'd get him the therapy and help he needed and teach him to move on with his life and put those horrors behind him. The fortunate thing for dogs is they don't hold grudges. How we treat them directly relates to how they behave when placed in a new home. A dog who's hand shy from being beaten will recover quickly when he sees that he will not be hit here, but treated like a normal dog. A dog who hates men can quickly overcome that if a man is put in charge of caring for and feeding him... they are very forgiving animals, and I don't think that labeling them with the 'abused' tag does them any justice.

Oh I agree Diggity, they come to me with baggage and it's my job to help them overcome it, but Harry has proven to be a special case. I've had other hand shy & "men hating' dogs here that their fears were quite easily overcome. But, we've tried everything with Harry to include obedience training to help build his trust in people & his own self-confidence...all to no avail (the training class was a small class too, only 6 other people/dogs). Clicker training has not worked either. I'm at a loss as to what to do for him next.

He gets treated no differently here than my other dogs, we dont dwell on his fears but his fear of men (especially if wearing baseball caps) seems to be so deeply ingrained that I am really starting to doubt he'll ever overcome it. He simply is not a trusting dog and is painfully shy & frightened in social settings. If we have guests at the house, his first instinct is to run and hide. I, of course, do not let him, but he will not let others near him unless he is right by my side, and even then he's doing it just to please me. When in social settings (whether that's at a local pet supply store or merely in my backyard talking with neighbors), he literally stands on his hind legs, wraps his front paws around my thigh & buries his face. I immediately put him in a sit/stay, but he is still very agitated and fearful and keeps his eyes trained on me for reassurance that all is okay.

If you have any additional helpful advice to help me to help him, I am all ears.

Stark

05-10-2006, 11:36 PM

Eagle,
You're right on the money. Speaking of money perhaps we should run a poll on how many rescuers DON"T get out here and beg for money. I've rescued numerous dogs throughout the years but I don't get on the internet and puff myself up and say look at me and I certainly don't go around asking for money. I certainly didn't intend to offend anyone who is legit, so those of you who are offended take a look at yourself. Anthropomorphic- That pretty much sums it up for the bleeding heart arguement that dogs don't belong outside.
You want to know why so many dogs end up in the pound, the Disney World Dog. People are never told the truth about dogs, they're animals whose first instinct is to survive not sit up and fetch. Like I said before if you want to save lives then get out there and offer some training and stop fooling people into thinking dogs are human, here comes that word again anthropomorphic. What the hell, no matter what you say to a fanatic it's not going to change anything.

SiNNiK

05-12-2006, 12:03 AM