dog runs away from gentle leader leash - Dog Forum

beagleowner · 09-30-2008, 08:33 PM

Hi - our beagle sniffs and pulls so much on walks that we got a gentle leader (head halter) leash a few months ago. It solved the walking problems instantly and we love using it for long walks. He does fine during walks with it on, but in the past few weeks he's started running away when we get it out. We have tried positive association techniques (feeding him with it on, giving him treats while he's wearing it etc.) and we have tried not using his regular leash and collar setup so he associates the gentle leader with any outside activity because he loves being outside. He seems to be getting worse, not better. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks.

canadianfreespirit · 10-04-2008, 03:25 PM

I just got kicked off a forum because I'm using one of those on a dog I walk for my neighbour. he's a 100lb shepherd/lab cross, and he's already pulled me down twice. I'm worried that with winter coming, and trying to walk him in ice and snow that he could really hurt me.
so the people on that forum FREAKED out. I won't go into all the details, except to say that I'm really glad I found a place like this one where it isn't "my way or the highway". the dog I'm walking doesn't like his halti, either, but I think it's kind of the same reaction a puppy has to getting used to wearing a collar. it just takes a while. and he certainly doesn't pull me any more.

4dogsandahuman · 10-07-2008, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Hi - our beagle sniffs and pulls so much on walks that we got a gentle leader (head halter) leash a few months ago. It solved the walking problems instantly and we love using it for long walks. He does fine during walks with it on, but in the past few weeks he's started running away when we get it out. We have tried positive association techniques (feeding him with it on, giving him treats while he's wearing it etc.) and we have tried not using his regular leash and collar setup so he associates the gentle leader with any outside activity because he loves being outside. He seems to be getting worse, not better. Does anyone have any other suggestions?

Thanks.

The reason your Beagle hates the gentle leader is because it hurts him. Calling it "gentle" is a big oxymoron. The gentle leader is called that because it appears to be gentle to the human, but it can actually be torturous to the dog. It was designed after horse equipment . . .which is designed to work for horses and not dogs. Your dog will continue to avoid outside activity because the gentle leader hurts him and he now associates the gentle leader with outside activity. This equipment not only puts undue strain on the dogs neck but can rub the dog raw in several locations. If you really would like to use something that would help the pulling, use a pinch collar. Even though they look mean, they actually communicate in the same way dogs do with each other . . .a correction by "nipping" the neck. The dog understands this, and used properly they won't cause consistent strain on the neck like the gentle leader or result in a trip to the vet for the dog for either rawness or neck pulls. He will also continue to enjoy outside activity because he is not receiving a continual correction, but will quickly realize that when he does not pull he can enjoy himself again.

Quote:

I just got kicked off a forum because I'm using one of those on a dog I walk for my neighbour. he's a 100lb shepherd/lab cross, and he's already pulled me down twice. I'm worried that with winter coming, and trying to walk him in ice and snow that he could really hurt me.
so the people on that forum FREAKED out. I won't go into all the details, except to say that I'm really glad I found a place like this one where it isn't "my way or the highway". the dog I'm walking doesn't like his halti, either, but I think it's kind of the same reaction a puppy has to getting used to wearing a collar. it just takes a while. and he certainly doesn't pull me any more.

I find it odd that you got kicked off a forum because of a gentle leader. Most people, especially those into PR training, will advocate the use of them. I do not think you should use this equipment at all, no matter how much you think it helps. If the dog seriously lunges it could do permanent damage to its neck with this device. Once again, if you are trying to control pulling, use a pinch. It is easy equipment to fit, and after a week of solid and consistent corrections with it (assuming you only walk 15 minutes a day with it on . . .longer walks would probably take fewer days) you should have a dog that will no longer pull.

canadianfreespirit · 10-07-2008, 10:21 AM

that dog I was walking broke a prong collar. he's much better on the halti, and I don't get the feeling that I'm torturing him.
and I really did get kicked off a forum over that. pretty petty, if you ask me.
however, I really don't want to argue about it. I have always been opposed to using them, too, but this dog can and has pulled me down. and winter is coming, so I'm worried about walking on ice and snow. we don't have sidewalks where I live.

4dogsandahuman · 10-10-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

that dog I was walking broke a prong collar. he's much better on the halti, and I don't get the feeling that I'm torturing him.
and I really did get kicked off a forum over that. pretty petty, if you ask me.
however, I really don't want to argue about it. I have always been opposed to using them, too, but this dog can and has pulled me down. and winter is coming, so I'm worried about walking on ice and snow. we don't have sidewalks where I live.

I understand your concern . . .and yes, I will agree it's petty to kick you off over using a halti . . .but if the dog broke a pinch collar, that leads me to believe it was not a good quality collar or there was something wrong with the way it was fitted, etc. Where did you get the pinch collar?

Honestly, if this is a major concern of yours, I would want to solve the problem with the dog and not mask it. It can take years of wearing a halti to ever prevent a dog from pulling again. A pinch collar will do the job quickly. Go to Ray Allen and order one of their German Steel pinch collars. They are high quality and much better than those you will get at local pet stores.

http://www.rayallen.com/ramCart/cartFrame.htm

I don't want you to think that I'm trying to argue with you about it either. That's not what my intent was, nor something I want to get involved in. I just know that there are pinch collars that are designed to work for much larger and stronger dogs than you are describing, so I wouldn't give up based on what sounds like some faulty equipment.

Your safety is #1 priority, though, so if you feel like you need to use the halti to get through the winter, so be it . . .but once the snow and ice goes away, I would go back to the prong and work the dog with that to rid it of it's pulling. And once again, the reason the equipment is deemed a "gentle leader" is because it doesn't appear to the handler like it is harsh or torturing, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't put undue stress on the dog physically.

canadianfreespirit · 10-10-2008, 07:46 PM

well, he's not my dog.
don't worry, I'm not offended by anything you said. it's clear that your concern is for what's best for me, and best for the dog. I'm only using the halti because I really didn't like the way he was on a choke-chain.
if he was my dog, none of this would ever have been an issue, because he would have been properly trained from the start. but he's 2, and totally unschooled. and the family he's in isn't interested in improving his manners or behaviour at all. I've never used a halti before, and honestly, I don't like them, but I don't like prongs even more. and, in this case, the halti is giving me a better measure of control over him. not a lot, but better than his choke collar.
they may get him another prong collar, I don't know, and I'm not sure of the details about the one they had. all I know is that they told me he had broken it. they don't spend much money on caring for this dog, he's never seen a vet, had shots, been neutered, and I use my own leash when I walk him, because theres is 2 rusted out chain leashes that have been tied together.
they are nice people, but, like so many others I see, I think that they got a cute puppy, not prepared for or willing to do the work required to turn it into a good citizen. and he's from a BYB, so you know there was no screening of them as potential owners.
my dogs are purebred toy poodles, and I had to pass an extensive phone interview, before the breeder would sell to me. I signed non-breeding contracts (would have anyway) and everything. and my dogs have all the required documentation, vaccination cert. going right back to the beginning, cert. of neuter, licence, and microchip. but I knew what I was getting into when I bought them.
p.s. sorry about the rant, but I have strong opinions about certain subjects, and proper dog care is one of them.

Nancy · 10-10-2008, 09:44 PM

I've always used martingale collars for my dogs. They cinch up to a point, but don't choke the dog. If you keep them high behind the ears, you don't risk injuring the trachea when they pull. My dogs have very slender necks and these type of collars do not injure them. They are used with greyhounds and whippets. Do any internet search on them.

canadianfreespirit · 10-10-2008, 11:46 PM

I know all about them. that's the only thing they allow on that forum that kicked me off, and that's why I got kicked off. I don't have a problem with them, I have another neighbour who uses them on her dogs very successfully. and one who has one on her dog, but doesn't have the faintest idea of how to work with it. I've tried to show her, but she just lets her little dog pull like a maniac, and makes no effort to "check" him with the collar. this morning, I did it to him about 6 times and he calmed right down and stayed still. he's trainable, he's still just a puppy, but there is a language barrier there, and I don't think she understands what I'm saying to her. which is too bad, because he's an awful cute little guy.
as for the dog I'm walking, he would laugh at a Martingale. he would do exactly what that puppy does-pull as hard as he could, all the time, and I'd be "checking" him all the time, just as I had to do when I was using the choke chain they use. I think Martingales are great, I have no issue with them, but people need to know how to use them properly, and, sad to say, but most of the people I know aren't interested in educating themselves about it.

4dogsandahuman · 10-11-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

sad to say, but most of the people I know aren't interested in educating themselves about it.

This rings true with just about anything these days.

canadianfreespirit · 10-11-2008, 05:43 PM

yeah, you can never go wrong being cynical. too bad, isn't it?
well, I educate myself, and I try very hard to educate other people, not for their sake but for the animals'. but sometimes it's like talking to a wall.
I give instructions to the family of the dog that I walk about how I've been training him, and how they should keep it up. and they couldn't care less. so I've basically given up on training him, except to sit and wait while cars pass. it's too bad, because he's a very intelligent dog, and if he had had the correct training as a puppy, (I offered even then) he would be awesome today.

10-07-2008, 10:21 AM	#4
canadianfreespirit Mom to J, O & M Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 435	that dog I was walking broke a prong collar. he's much better on the halti, and I don't get the feeling that I'm torturing him. and I really did get kicked off a forum over that. pretty petty, if you ask me. however, I really don't want to argue about it. I have always been opposed to using them, too, but this dog can and has pulled me down. and winter is coming, so I'm worried about walking on ice and snow. we don't have sidewalks where I live. Last edited by canadianfreespirit; 10-07-2008 at 07:43 PM.

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09-30-2008, 08:33 PM	#1
beagleowner Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: boston Posts: 2	dog runs away from gentle leader leash Hi - our beagle sniffs and pulls so much on walks that we got a gentle leader (head halter) leash a few months ago. It solved the walking problems instantly and we love using it for long walks. He does fine during walks with it on, but in the past few weeks he's started running away when we get it out. We have tried positive association techniques (feeding him with it on, giving him treats while he's wearing it etc.) and we have tried not using his regular leash and collar setup so he associates the gentle leader with any outside activity because he loves being outside. He seems to be getting worse, not better. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks.

10-04-2008, 03:25 PM	#2
canadianfreespirit Mom to J, O & M Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 435	I just got kicked off a forum because I'm using one of those on a dog I walk for my neighbour. he's a 100lb shepherd/lab cross, and he's already pulled me down twice. I'm worried that with winter coming, and trying to walk him in ice and snow that he could really hurt me. so the people on that forum FREAKED out. I won't go into all the details, except to say that I'm really glad I found a place like this one where it isn't "my way or the highway". the dog I'm walking doesn't like his halti, either, but I think it's kind of the same reaction a puppy has to getting used to wearing a collar. it just takes a while. and he certainly doesn't pull me any more.

10-10-2008, 07:46 PM	#6
canadianfreespirit Mom to J, O & M Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 435	well, he's not my dog. don't worry, I'm not offended by anything you said. it's clear that your concern is for what's best for me, and best for the dog. I'm only using the halti because I really didn't like the way he was on a choke-chain. if he was my dog, none of this would ever have been an issue, because he would have been properly trained from the start. but he's 2, and totally unschooled. and the family he's in isn't interested in improving his manners or behaviour at all. I've never used a halti before, and honestly, I don't like them, but I don't like prongs even more. and, in this case, the halti is giving me a better measure of control over him. not a lot, but better than his choke collar. they may get him another prong collar, I don't know, and I'm not sure of the details about the one they had. all I know is that they told me he had broken it. they don't spend much money on caring for this dog, he's never seen a vet, had shots, been neutered, and I use my own leash when I walk him, because theres is 2 rusted out chain leashes that have been tied together. they are nice people, but, like so many others I see, I think that they got a cute puppy, not prepared for or willing to do the work required to turn it into a good citizen. and he's from a BYB, so you know there was no screening of them as potential owners. my dogs are purebred toy poodles, and I had to pass an extensive phone interview, before the breeder would sell to me. I signed non-breeding contracts (would have anyway) and everything. and my dogs have all the required documentation, vaccination cert. going right back to the beginning, cert. of neuter, licence, and microchip. but I knew what I was getting into when I bought them. p.s. sorry about the rant, but I have strong opinions about certain subjects, and proper dog care is one of them.

10-10-2008, 09:44 PM	#7
Nancy Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Northern California Posts: 214	I've always used martingale collars for my dogs. They cinch up to a point, but don't choke the dog. If you keep them high behind the ears, you don't risk injuring the trachea when they pull. My dogs have very slender necks and these type of collars do not injure them. They are used with greyhounds and whippets. Do any internet search on them.

10-10-2008, 11:46 PM	#8
canadianfreespirit Mom to J, O & M Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 435	I know all about them. that's the only thing they allow on that forum that kicked me off, and that's why I got kicked off. I don't have a problem with them, I have another neighbour who uses them on her dogs very successfully. and one who has one on her dog, but doesn't have the faintest idea of how to work with it. I've tried to show her, but she just lets her little dog pull like a maniac, and makes no effort to "check" him with the collar. this morning, I did it to him about 6 times and he calmed right down and stayed still. he's trainable, he's still just a puppy, but there is a language barrier there, and I don't think she understands what I'm saying to her. which is too bad, because he's an awful cute little guy. as for the dog I'm walking, he would laugh at a Martingale. he would do exactly what that puppy does-pull as hard as he could, all the time, and I'd be "checking" him all the time, just as I had to do when I was using the choke chain they use. I think Martingales are great, I have no issue with them, but people need to know how to use them properly, and, sad to say, but most of the people I know aren't interested in educating themselves about it.

10-11-2008, 05:43 PM	#10
canadianfreespirit Mom to J, O & M Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 435	yeah, you can never go wrong being cynical. too bad, isn't it? well, I educate myself, and I try very hard to educate other people, not for their sake but for the animals'. but sometimes it's like talking to a wall. I give instructions to the family of the dog that I walk about how I've been training him, and how they should keep it up. and they couldn't care less. so I've basically given up on training him, except to sit and wait while cars pass. it's too bad, because he's a very intelligent dog, and if he had had the correct training as a puppy, (I offered even then) he would be awesome today.