Falcons QB indicted for dog fighting

[reeskujo]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shocking charges
Indictment against Vick describes unfathomable acts

The indictment handed down Tuesday against Falcons quarterback Michael Vick and three others describes in detail how they procured a property in Virginia for the purpose of staging dogfights, bought dogs, and then fought them there and in several other states over a six-year period. With at least three cooperating witnesses providing the details, federal authoritie compiled a detailed case that traces the birth and rise of Bad Newz Kennels.

But not a single line in the 18-page indictment will generate more rage toward Vick and the others charged -- Purnell A. Peace, Quanis L. Phillips and Tony Taylor -- than a sentence near the end. It reads: "In or about April of 2007, Peace, Phillips and Vick executed approximately eight dogs that did not perform well in 'testing' sessions at 1915 Moonlight Road by various methods, including hanging, drowning and slamming at least one dog's body to the ground."

In interviews I conducted for an earlier story on the subculture of dogfighting and Vick's involvement, several experts described to me the process of "rolling" dogs. Owners take young dogs, usually puppies, and put them in an enclosed area and see how they react. They prod the dogs and urge them to get angry. If a dog shows aggression toward another dog, that's a positive. If a dog is timid, it is useless. Some fighters give away puppies that don't show the required "gameness." Other owners don't bother with the trouble of finding them a home and simply kill them.

Vick and his three associates, according to the indictment, fall in the latter category. Federal investigators allege that Vick is a murderer of dogs who weren't willing to fight for his enjoyment. Even worse, his actions appear more sinister than most professional dogfighters.

"If you want to kill a dog, why exert the energy to slam him into the ground or drown him? Why not just shoot him, which is the most common method?" says John Goodwin, dogfighting expert for the Humane Society of the United States. "That is insane. These guys, if they did that, have serious problems."

Vick's problems would seem to be plentiful now that he has gone from a person of interest in local and federal investigations to one of four men charged in U.S. District Court in Richmond, Va. with conspiracy to commit interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal-fighting venture. On the Travel Act portion of the conspiracy charges, he faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. The dogfighting charges carry a possible sentence of one year in prison and $100,000 fine or both.

Still, even with the gravity of the crimes alleged, Vick's most serious problem would seem to be one of perception. If one believes the allegations against him, Vick is neither a novice dogfighter nor or a hobbyist who dipped his toe into the sport briefly. The indictment alleges that Vick is a professional dogfighter who"sponsored" more than two dozen dogfights. He is not, as he previously said, someone who merely trusted the wrong people. Rather, he is the face of a bloodsport that the majority of NFL fans probably didn't know existed until the property he owned on Moonlight Road was raided in late April. And, now, he becomes the ultimate test for NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and his new discipline policy.

"We expect the Falcons and the NFL to take prompt action," Goodwin says. "The message needs to be sent to other athletes who have been involved or are involved in dogfighting that this can be a career ender."

It remains to be seen how the Falcons or the NFL will act, but if they read all 18 pages of the indictment, one can be sure they will no longer give Vick the benefit of the doubt.

According to the indictment, Vick, who was also known as "Ookie," and the three others set out to start a kennel of American Pit Bull Terriers for the purpose of fighting them around 2001. Around May of that year, the indictment states that Taylor picked the property on 1915 Moonlight Road near Smithfield, Va., and Vick paid $34,000 for the land. In that same year, Vick and the other three men began acquiring fighting dogs, purchasing animals in Virginia and other states. There were four dogs from an individual in North Carolina, another dog bought in New York, and six dogs and six puppies from an individual in Richmond, Va.

According to the indictment, in Sept. 2001, Vick and two others purchased four pit bulls puppies, including a male named "Magic" for $1,000 from an individual who has since testified before the grand jury. In 2002, Vick, accompanied by Peace, purchased four pit bulls from another person in Virginia who the indictment says is now a cooperating witness for the government.

The indictment states that in early 2002, the quartet established "Bad Newz Kennels" and even obtained shirts and headbands that "promoted their affiliation" with that organization. They also began renovation of the Moonlight Road property: building a fence to shield the portion where dogfights allegedly occurred and sheds to house the dogs and training equipment. They buried car axles in the woods so they could tie the dogs to them.

Around the summer of 2002, the four men began "rolling" dogs, according to the indictment. At that time, Peace, Phillips and Taylor each killed at least one dog that proved to be a poor fighter. Peace shot a dog with a .22 caliber pistol. Phillips also shot a dog. Taylor, the indictment alleges, executed at least two dogs that didn't test well, shooting one and electrocuting at least one other.

Federal investigators say the quartet began attending fights as early as 2002, and in that year, Vick is first said to have sponsored a fight, between "Zebro" and "Maniac" at the Moonlight Road property for a purse totaling $2,000.

One of the more detailed descriptions of a fight involves a bout in March 2003. A professional fighter, now cooperating with the government, traveled from North Carolina to a location near Blackstone, Va., with his 35-pound female pit bull and a 47-pound male pit bull. The purse was $13,000 a side for the fight involving the female and $10,000 for the fight between the males. According to the indictment, Peace and Vick "represented" Bad Newz Kennels at those fights, which Bad Newz Kennels lost. "Peace, after consulting with Vick about the losing female pit bull's condition, executed the dog by wetting the dog down with water and electrocuting the animal," the indictment reads.

The fate of the male dog owned by Bad Newz is not mentioned in the indictment, but it does state that following that fight, "Vick retrieved a book bag containing approximately $23,000 in cash" and gave it to the winning owner, who is listed as "Cooperating Witness #2" in the indictment......I hope he gets what's coming to him!!!

[blue lacy lover]

i couldnt read it all but i read enough. i am so mad at the people that do this!!!!! i want to cry everytime i hear about dogs that are not treated like they should...if i knew that some1 was doing stuff like this to a poo little helpless pooch i would probably kill them.:mad:

and i hope he gets it too! :mad:

[reeskujo]

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/banmichaelvicknow
Here is a link to a petition to have Michael Vick banned from the NFL.It will be sent to the NFL and it's commisioners....Please sign and let these public figures know they will be held accountable by their fans!

[trainingtrixie]

no wonder pitties have such a bad rep....how sociable would you be if you we poked an proded and tortured on a regular basis!! I know that I'd be pretty po'd!!!! I hope he get locked up for a long time and loses everything!!! sick SOB!

[scarlett]

I read the article and sent an email to the writer of the story. I can't wait to see if he responds. I'll keep you informed.

If they ever let Vick play again, I will be very very upset. He is a monster. I really feel that the punishment should fit the crime. In other words, I would love to stick a rod up _____ and send shock waves through his body.

[blue lacy lover]

i totaly agree!!! he should get the same thing!!! :mad:

[reeskujo]

I just read the the NFL is going to continue letting that dirt bag Vick continue to play while his court case is on going.What a thing to teach our kids...If your rich and famous you can commit a crime with all the evidence stacked against you and still make your millions and live the high life...Those poor dogs certainly aren't living the high life now are they?.....I am so furious over this...Please guys click the link I posted and sign the petition to have Vick banned!Why should he live so good on all of his money when those poor dogs suffered so horribly!

[pbrdog]

Vick's problems would seem to be plentiful now that he has gone from a person of interest in local and federal investigations to one of four men charged in U.S. District Court in Richmond, Va. with conspiracy to commit interstate commerce in aid of unlawful activities and to sponsor a dog in an animal-fighting venture. On the Travel Act portion of the conspiracy charges, he faces a maximum of five years in prison and a $250,000 fine. The dogfighting charges carry a possible sentence of one year in prison and $100,000 fine or both.
In addition to the fines, he should get 1000+ hours working in a shelter cleaning pens. This type of behavior is totally uncalled for. The sad thing is, this is only in the news because it's a high profile figure. There are people out there doing this everyday. I'd be just sick if Luke was taken and used as a practice dog for these types of antics.

[reeskujo]

Hopefully since this dirt bag is a public figure it will bring more attention and outrage to this horrible crime and abuse of these animals and more people will get involved in trying to stop it.It would be a great thing if he gets the maximum sentence(which still isn't enough)as more people would be aware of the punishment and that this type of behavior should not and will not be tolerated no matter who you are...I only wish he could suffer the same pain and horror as those poor dogs did!!!

[scarlett]

Just sent the petition to my friends who are all animal lovers. I just have a horrible feeling in the pit of my stomach that nothing will really happen to Vick.

[pbrdog]

Online petitions don't carry any weight. Unless it has an actual signature and address on it, it won't go anywhere. Heck, I can add 1000 names to it if I wanted. So can anybody else.

[reeskujo]

Thanks for sending it and unfortunetly I think you might be right but at least we can let the NFL and the Falcons know how the fans feel about it and that their team may loose alot of fan support.

[reeskujo]

Democratic Sen. Robert Byrd, eyes glistening, delivered an emotional speech on the Senate floor a short time ago expressing his disgust, anger, and sadness over the allegations in the Michael Vick pit-bull case.

Byrd has often spoken on the Senate floor about how much he loves his small dog, especially since the death last year of his wife of 68 years. While emphasizing that he wasn't commenting on the particulars of Vick's case, Byrd lashed out at the practice of dog-fighting. "The training of these poor creatures to turn them into fighting machines is simply barbaric." Shouting and waving his hands, he repeated the words "Barbaric!" and then said "Hear me!"

"I am confident that the hottest places in hell are reserved for sick and brutal people who hold God’s creatures in such brutal and cruel contempt." After the speech, Democratic Sen. Ted Kennedy -- who has two dogs of his own -- went up to Byrd and said, "Great speech, Bob." And the two went on to talk about their dogs.

[trainingtrixie]

that senator rules...and i hope he's right that the hottest corners of hell are reserved for @$$holes like vick and all fellow puppy killers. it just breaks my heart and infuriates me that things like this are happening every day

[wyattabby]

I just read the the NFL is going to continue letting that dirt bag Vick continue to play while his court case is on going.What a thing to teach our kids...If your rich and famous you can commit a crime with all the evidence stacked against you and still make your millions and live the high life...Those poor dogs certainly aren't living the high life now are they?.....I am so furious over this...Please guys click the link I posted and sign the petition to have Vick banned!Why should he live so good on all of his money when those poor dogs suffered so horribly!

while I thought he was a scumbag before this incident (knowingly giving more than one woman herpes), this is america so until he is proven guilty there is no reason he should lose his job...just because he's an entertainer does not mean he has less rights than the next person.

[scarlett]

This article says it all. If you believe that Vick "may" be innocent, you really need to read this.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/07/19/sit.vick/index.html

[wyattabby]

This article says it all. If you believe that Vick "may" be innocent, you really need to read this.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/don_banks/07/19/sit.vick/index.html

please don't put words in my mouth. I'm simply stating that while there is no doubt in my mind he is a p.o.s, he hasn't been convicted of anything "yet".

[scarlett]

I'm sorry you thought I was directing that towards you, I was not. It's my fault for almost quoting your post. It was an honest mistake. I found the article very interesting. Thank you.

[reeskujo]

While maybe he shouldn't be fired yet because he hasn't been convicted he has certainly been charged with a serious offense and at the very least should be suspended pending the outcome!!!I'm quite sure if your average person was arrested on such serious charges most of our employers would probably suspend us until we were cleared and at that without pay!!!!

[wyattabby]

While maybe he shouldn't be fired yet because he hasn't been convicted he has certainly been charged with a serious offense and at the very least should be suspended pending the outcome!!!I'm quite sure if your average person was arrested on such serious charges most of our employers would probably suspend us until we were cleared and at that without pay!!!!

yeah, and get sued for all they're worth

[reeskujo]

I think that may depend on what line of work your in.

[trainingtrixie]

yeah I doubt that say...a school teacher would be allowed to continue teaching with there allegations pending. THey'd probably be asked to voluntarily resign.

[rutylr]

AKC Statement on the Federal Indictment of Michael Vick on Charges of Dog Fighting
Print This Article
[Thursday, July 19, 2007]
In response to the federal Indictment of Atlanta Falcons Quarterback Michael Vick and three other men alleging that they have sponsored dog fighting, the American Kennel Club® has issued the following statement:
The American Kennel Club is a not-for-profit organization which maintains the largest registry of purebred dogs in the world and oversees the sport of purebred dogs in the United States. The AKC supports state laws making any form of participation in organized dog fights a felony. The AKC unequivocally opposes the 'sport' of dog fighting and the breeding and/or training of dogs for fighting. The AKC opposes the training of dogs for uncontrolled aggressive behavior toward other dogs and people.

"Dog fighting is barbaric. We hope that both federal and NFL authorities will take these charges very seriously," said AKC Chairman Ron Menaker. "The AKC supports legislation to criminalize dog fighting, including traveling across interstate lines to aid in unlawful activities relating to dog fighting, and any other form of animal cruelty. On behalf of our 5,000 affiliated clubs made up of dog lovers, we will be monitoring this case very closely as it proceeds through the judicial system."

[pbrdog]

Saw this and thought it would be an appropriate punishment. Let him try to squeeze by 11 of these guys.

[scarlett]

Joel...that is a great picture! I love it.

[blue lacy lover]

Joel...that is a great picture! I love it.


that is SOOOOOOOOOO funny!!!!
i love that!! :) :D

[Stark]

I think we all need to remember that Michael Vick is not the only one involved with this situation, unfortunately the American way is taking over and the punks who can't stand and face the music are spilling their guts like cowards to avoid the punishment they deserve.

[reeskujo]

I think they should all be punished to the maximum.They maybe cowards for taking a plea deal and ratting out Vick but lets not forget if what's been said is true he was the one funding the whole thing and calling the shots.The Prosecutors gave him a choice today.Either make a plea deal by Friday or other charges will be issued.I'm sure his money will buy him a way out!

[blue lacy lover]

I think they should all be punished to the maximum.They maybe cowards for taking a plea deal and ratting out Vick but lets not forget if what's been said is true he was the one funding the whole thing and calling the shots.The Prosecutors gave him a choice today.Either make a plea deal by Friday or other charges will be issued.I'm sure his money will buy him a way out!


i agree 100% w/ you. the SHOULD be punished to the maximum. not just the people pay'n for it!

[wyattabby]

One Year in Prison: Vick's Possible Plea Deal

Federal prosecutors have offered Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick a deal that includes a recommendation that he serve at least one year in prison on felony dogfighting conspiracy charges, the Virginian-Pilot reported today.

The fallen NFL star, who has been charged with violating federal dogfighting laws, has been considering a possible plea deal since Wednesday. Vick reportedly has until Friday at 9 a.m. to decide whether he will agree to the deal.

Vick has delayed his decision, because he is waiting to hear back from the NFL as to how a guilty plea would affect his NFL career, according to a report in the Atlanta Journal Constitution. Vick is the only defendant left in the case that has not yet agreed to a plea deal. Tony Taylor, 34, pleaded guilty and accepted a deal last month. Quantis Phillips, 28, and Purnell Peace, 35, are expected to accept plea deals when they appear in court Friday.

All three men reportedly have agreed to testify against Vick.

Meanwhile, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has said he will wait until the NFL concludes its own investigation into the allegations to decide Vick's fate.

Earlier this week, the NFL denied information posted in a report on Yahoo Sports stating that Vick had been suspended from the upcoming regular season. So far, Vick has been banned only from attending the Falcon's training camp.

While visiting the Detroit Lions Thursday, Goodell also said that Vick and the dogfighting scandal is not "overshadowing the season."

"We're going to do what we always said we were going to do, which is rely on the facts," Goodell said. "If there is some type of a plea agreement, then we will obviously take the time to understand what that plea is, and we'll see how it fits into our personal conduct [policy]."

If Vick does not agree to a deal, prosecutors have said they plan to bring more charges against him and will hand down a superseding indictment later in the month.

Vick could still make a deal with respect to these additional charges, but prosecutors are likely to be less lenient the second time around.

[Stark]

While Vick needs to deal with this issue I do not believe this needs to be a career ending incident. There have been far worse scandals within our own government and people walk away free and clear. Vick being caught and found guilty by plea or by a jury is enough. We as a society overlook crimes worse than this on a daily basis. We can all complain about football stars being role models etc. but I really doubt it has any ill effect on the youth. Hell, take a look at the videos your kids listen to and the music (hip hop)then let's discuss role models. These guys get on TV and say it's all an act but you don't see them stop what they're doing.
I hope Vick gets probation, a fine and some community service to bring him back to reality and then let's get this behind us. Dog and cock fights will go on until way past out existance, perhaps we should put as much effort into supporting and protecting our neighbor and members of our society as we do animals. Then again some prefer to save a whale, kill a baby.

[reeskujo]

IMO,the fact that punishments for this type of crime are so lenient is part of why this horror continues to go on!Yes,I agree the government is home to some of the biggest criminals in this country I dont think that is a good enough excuse for Vick not to be properly punished.Stark,I have to ask would you still think he deserved such a light sentence if those crimes were comitted against your dogs?If they were mine I'd be out for blood same as I would if it were my children!

[Stark]

Rees,
While I understand your feelings for youe dogs this is not an issue of a guy fighting dogs, this is an issue of a Pro football player that the media wants to use to feed their ratings. No, this is not a light crime but it is also not one that deserves to ruin a mans profession forever. I would like to remind you that it wasn't that long ago that cock fighting was conducted by our presidents and other elected officials in our nations capitaol according to the historians of cock fighting. Were these politicians drug through the mud their careers ended, I say not. At one time in this country dogfighting was an accepted sport if you can call it that. Sex with a 12 or 13 year old was the norm, now these things are not acceptable only because societies attitude has changed. While we need laws to protect society and maintain order we also need to look at the punishments that go along with these crimes. The media is one of the biggest curses known to this country, it is sad when ones opinions are swayed because of what they are fed on a news cast.
No he should not be slapped on the hand but neither should he be destroyed because of a stupid act. We want to see this man fried for his crime yet we support abortion clinics, save a whale kill a baby.

[reeskujo]

Stark,for me this is not an issue of Vick being a football player.It is the issue of the horrible crime he comitted.I could careless if he was a pro-athlete or an every day guy from the neighborhood.What he and his co-horts did is disgusting and they need to be punished with the maximum penelty aloud.I dont watch football so I could careless if he plays or he doesn't.That's for the NFL to decide but I dont think him or any other person should get away with this with a slap on the wrist.I also dont think that because the people in government get away with the crap they do is a justifiable excuse for him to walk.As for your feelings about abortion clinics I think that issue is a moral one and everyone has a different opinion or feeling as to how they think on that subject.I dont think it's an issue that has any comparison to crimes like the ones Vick and the others have comitted.Yes,dog fighting and cock fighting were at one time legal but there not any more and with good reason.BTW,you didn't answer my question as to wether or not you would feel he deserves such a light sentence if those were your dogs!

[blue lacy lover]

Stark,for me this is not an issue of Vick being a football player.It is the issue of the horrible crime he comitted.I could careless if he was a pro-athlete or an every day guy from the neighborhood.What he and his co-horts did is disgusting and they need to be punished with the maximum penelty aloud.


totaly agree! it should be the same for every1.

[Stark]

Rees,
If I bred game dogs and tested them in the ring then no I would not be upset at the fact he was holding dog fights and my dogs were involved. With that in mind, I do not breed game dogs. We are always quick to act, you must also remember that so many breeds were developed and used for things that you find horable yet to some it is no big deal. As everyone so freely states, it's a matter of opinion like the other issues I raised in my last post. Hell, I think it should be a crime for some idiots to have children.

[Stark]

Just another thought but I am constantly perplexed at how so many people place so much value on a dog, cat or other animal. They are so concerned about their welfare and spend hundreds of dollars for vet bills and rescues etc but yet they'll allow starving children in this country go hungry. I see elderly people go without their medications and proper treatments on a daily basis. Are the lives of these humans not more valuable than those of an animal? Yes, I care a great deal for my pets and give them the best care they can receive but I would kill everyone of them to save a starving child or anyone for that matter. I have not lost sight of the fact that dogs , cats, and every other beloved pet is still an animal.
I wonder what it would be like if we had human rescues and all this effort was put into helping provide health care to those who can't afford it. So you see Vick may not be the most aweful criminal in our country after all, it may be you and I.

[reeskujo]

Just another thought but I am constantly perplexed at how so many people place so much value on a dog, cat or other animal. They are so concerned about their welfare and spend hundreds of dollars for vet bills and rescues etc but yet they'll allow starving children in this country go hungry. I see elderly people go without their medications and proper treatments on a daily basis. Are the lives of these humans not more valuable than those of an animal? Yes, I care a great deal for my pets and give them the best care they can receive but I would kill everyone of them to save a starving child or anyone for that matter. I have not lost sight of the fact that dogs , cats, and every other beloved pet is still an animal.
I wonder what it would be like if we had human rescues and all this effort was put into helping provide health care to those who can't afford it. So you see Vick may not be the most aweful criminal in our country after all, it may be you and I.
While I agree with you on the issues of not taken care of the children an elderly in this country and being a nurse and a mom I have seen how they are affected by improper care, I still do not think that is an excuse not to punish someone with the maximum the law allows simply because it was a dog and not a person.Punishments need to be tougher on many crimes that are comitted and it has to start somewhere.I dont think it's reasonable to say Vick should get a slap on the wrist because we dont take good enough care of the humans in our country.If that were the case noone would ever be punished.

[Rottweilerlvr]

If I was found guilty of dogfighting or anything for that matter and spent time in prison, I would lose my job FOREVER, and have to go work at some fast food place. So, tell me exactly, why Michael Vick should get different form of treatment and still be allowed to keep his job? I am a huge NFL fan, I live in Atlanta, GA, and I NEVER want to see Michael Vick on the playing field again...

Maybe this video will help change the minds of some who think the brutality and absolute cruelty that these dogs live is not okay and will have you realize what low life scumbags these guys are...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6cGumyHGbVU

[rutylr]

Great video as always Rottweilerlvr

[reeskujo]

Rott.....While that video brought me tears it's a great reality check for those who think that dog fighting is no big deal or an offense that should only recieve a slap on the wrist!....Anyone who can commit such cruel,horrible,inhumane acts is not deserving of riches in life when those of us barely making it do all we can to make sure are dogs are getting all the love and care they're so deserving of.I myself would trust my Kujo to save my life before I would most people I know!Yet this is the payback these innocent animals get for wanting nothing more then to be loved and be the loyal companions their capable of being....Thanks for posting the link Rott.

[blue lacy lover]

Rott.....While that video brought me tears it's a great reality check for those who think that dog fighting is no big deal or an offense that should only recieve a slap on the wrist!....Anyone who can commit such cruel,horrible,inhumane acts is not deserving of riches in life when those of us barely making it do all we can to make sure are dogs are getting all the love and care they're so deserving of.I myself would trust my Kujo to save my life before I would most people I know!Yet this is the payback these innocent animals get for wanting nothing more then to be loved and be the loyal companions their capable of being....Thanks for posting the link Rott.


i agree w/ every thin you said reeskujo. i could not stand more than 30 sec of that video untill i had to stop it. :( i can not even think about the poor pups that are hurt or dead because of this so called "sport"! it is hard to believe that any1 would let people get away w/ this kind of stuff! but they do. it makes me really mad to see dogs that could have a family & a home, fighting each other!!:mad:

[Rottweilerlvr]

Push through it guys when you watch the video... I know it's emotional, and sad, but the end will bring you happy tears for the survivors... You don't want to miss their stories, truly uplifting...

[reeskujo]

I watched the whole thing Rott and it was great to see those poor babies in such good homes with such loving people who are truly dedicated to them....They certainly deserve it after what they've been through.

[blue lacy lover]

ok i got all the way to the end this time. it is great that those poor pups are in forever homes now, but it is sad that some will never be completely normal again. if i was hurt by those dogs i would be afraid of them, it makes sense that these dogs that were bait dogs are dog-agresive. it isnt their falt! it is the sick people that fight them's falt!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

i am glad that i got to see the end. i did cry the entire time though.

[DiggityDogs]

Just another thought but I am constantly perplexed at how so many people place so much value on a dog, cat or other animal. They are so concerned about their welfare and spend hundreds of dollars for vet bills and rescues etc but yet they'll allow starving children in this country go hungry. I see elderly people go without their medications and proper treatments on a daily basis. Are the lives of these humans not more valuable than those of an animal? Yes, I care a great deal for my pets and give them the best care they can receive but I would kill everyone of them to save a starving child or anyone for that matter. I have not lost sight of the fact that dogs , cats, and every other beloved pet is still an animal.
I wonder what it would be like if we had human rescues and all this effort was put into helping provide health care to those who can't afford it. So you see Vick may not be the most aweful criminal in our country after all, it may be you and I.

Everyone has their own cause. I agree... too many starving children, too many homeless, not enough people willing to take care of the elderly, but you'll never have everyone rooting for the same cause. We may be bigger criminals in your eyes, but such is life. There's no law against not caring about other people. We are entitled to care about whatever cause we want.
I'm so sick of this Vick case, I can hardly watch the news anymore. I'm sick of the ''cultural difference'' excuse. I'm sick of the ''he didn't know it was wrong'' excuse. Ask any cop. Ignorance of the law is NO excuse. Yes, they are animals. yes, they are 'Just Dogs'. I place value on MY dogs over dogs as a whole, so I'm not offended that people eat dogs or cats or whatever. My beef is with a holes that don't value that life. That don't care if those dogs suffer, how much they suffer, or how long they suffer. Vick doesn't give a crap about those dogs or their welfare. He's not sorry he did it, he's sorry he got caught. He should absolutely be held accountable, and as far as ending his career, the NFL has strict guidlines about betting, and any player who associates with gamblers of any kind is subject to a permanent ban. He knew that rule but chose to ignore it by bankrolling these fights. I hope he gets what he deserves, and I think he deserves to be banned. If you are blessed with a talent that makes you millions of dollars and you want to piss it away by balatantly breaking the rules your employer has set down and balatantly breaking the law, then you're just going to have to suffer the consequences. Let this case be a warning to those who want to claim to be ignorant or who think that it's ok because it's a ''cultural thing''. I'd love to see what the country would say if a KKK member claimed that it was a ''cultural thing'' to burn a cross on someone's lawn. Culture and tradition are not OK if they break the law. You should not get a slap on the wrist because that's ''how you were raised''. Vick deserves what he gets.

[blue lacy lover]

very well put. i too am sick of the news.