fat in diets

[Nancy]

When I read canned food labels, protein is listed as e.g. "not less thant 7.0 percent" and crude fat "not less than 3.0 percent" (this is Wellness Senior formula). There has been a lot of discussion on protein diets, i.e. types, too high, etc., and raw diets. So I don't want to focus on that here.

My vet has said that pancreatitis occurs from too high fat diets. Schnauzers are prone to it as well as hyperlipidemia (specifically cholesterol & triglycerides) so it's something I think about. The pancreas secretes digestive enzymes which digests fats, proteins, and carbohydrates in food, also releases insulin (which uses the glucose produced by the body). Hyperlipidemia is caused by an excess of fat or the inability of fats to be broken down. Certainly there are genetics involved in the potential for a body to not metabolize these substances properly. But as in humans we use prevention, so I believe we should in our pets.

I'd like your thoughts on how much is too much fat? Can higher protein foods cause higher fat in diets? And how do you control diet to keep lipids (cholesterol and triglycerides) low with commercial foods?

In humans, we lower our cholesterol & triglyceride intake & increase exercise.

I wish there were nutritionists who specialized in dogs & cats! I appreciate everyone's opinions.

[myminpins]

Over 30% TO 40% imo is too much. Most times, pancreatitus is set off by a dog getting into a TON of fat all at once - for instance, a pile of left over chicken or turkey fat, a container of drained fat from weeks of cooking, etc.

A raw diet is the most perfect way to feed a dog and that diet is approximately 30 to 37% fat so anything above that MIGHT be a problem but not usually.

It's much more often that dogs have problems with insufficient amounts of proteins, too much calcium, etc., than too much fat.

Wellness changed their formula awhile ago, by the way, and isn't as good as it used to be :)

And there are a few nutritionalists who specialize in dogs and cats but they're very few and far between and oftentimes have "sold out" to some brand name or another, unfortunately :(

If you monitor your dog's weight and feed a good diet, your dog should be fine for many, many years. Overweight dogs are becoming a HUGE problem these days and that's VERY hard on them :)

[Nancy]

myminpins - What is the average weight of one of your min pins? Also age? What do you feed on the raw diet? And how much do you feed for your average dog? If I feed the amounts that are listed for their weights, they do not eat that much. Our shih tzu will eat non stop if allowed & has a tendency for weight gain. (She is losing right now with increased exercise & less snacks from everyone!!!! - I had to retrain everyone to not give her so many snacks)

I'm just trying to educate myself. My experience with vets is they just recommend the food that they carry. There is a vet school in my community, I should see if there is a nutritionist there - I find the subject interesting. Whenever the subject "which food" comes up there are a lot of posts!

thanks.

[myminpins]

Well, I know some people who have become vets and they don't get any nutritional training at all really. For example, many vets sell Science Diet but that food is just GARBAGE!!!

Three of my min pins weigh around 7.5 pounds and the other weighs 12.5 pounds. Zoe is 3, Penny is 2.5, Tessa is 2 and Charlie is one.

I feed them chicken, beef and lamb as well as a bit of alfalfa mixture from my supplier and occasionally tripe (yuck!!!) as well as fish oil.

I get my raw food from here:

http://www.totallyrawdogfood.com/

All my dogs would gain weight if they ate as they pleased.

Penny and Tessa get 2 ounces of food per day plus a marrow bone to chew on and maybe 20 pieces of cat food per day that I use as their treats. Zoe eats one ounce per day and Charlie eats five to six. (Zoe's very inactive, Charlie is larger and VERY active)

Try giving her lots of raw carrots for snacks if they insist on treating her - dogs usually LOVE raw carrots and just give her small pieces :)

Here are some links for you if you're interested:

Choosing the best food for your money:
http://www.gooddogmagazine.com/dogfoodcosts.htm

List of good foods to feed:
http://greatdanelady.com/articles/criteria_list_of_better_foods.htm

Pet Food Labels 101
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=labelinfo101

Pet Food Ingredients to avoid
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=badingredients

Identifying better dog foods
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=betterproducts

How To Buy The Best Dog Food
http://greatdanelady.com/articles/selecting_a_better_food.htm

Where the Money Goes:
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=costfactors

The Science Diet Scam:
http://www.ourdogsonline.com/index.php?section=27



Is any Commercial Pet Food Safe?
http://www.belfield.com/article3.html

Pet Food- Our Pets are Dying for it:
http://www.homestead.com/VonHapsburg/petfood.html

What’s Really in Pet Food:
http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=79

Article discussing the pitfalls of commercial pet foods:
http://www.wholisticanimal.com/commercialfood.html

Article on the Contents of Commercial Dog Food:
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/dog_food_ingredients.htm

A Overview of Commercial Pet Food
www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/health/common/feeding.html

[Nancy]

wow thanks for the links. That'll keep me busy for a while!

My vet told me cat food would give the schnauzers pancreatitis. They've always loved carrots, green beans, most veggies & fruits. The shih tzu has gotten to the cat food but no ill effect. She doesn't like any veggies or fruits! No one gets to eat as much as they want - even me!!! It's always a balance.

thanks again.

[myminpins]

Maybe if you fed them cat food exclusively it'd be a problem but I doubt it. :) A few kibble a day won't hurt :)

Yeah, we can never eat as much as we want to :( No problem. :)

[Woof]

I'd like your thoughts on how much is too much fat? Can higher protein foods cause higher fat in diets? And how do you control diet to keep lipids (cholesterol and triglycerides) low with commercial foods?

In humans, we lower our cholesterol & triglyceride intake & increase exercise.

I wish there were nutritionists who specialized in dogs & cats! I appreciate everyone's opinions.

Nancy: I believe the question how much is too much fat is to open ended. I would tend to agree with minpin regarding fat levels but that would be for a healthy dog. You can increase protein content with out increasing your fat content. Take boiled chicken for example. Essentially all the fat is rendered and you are left with lean meat. The internet is an awsome tool and you can go to each manufacturers web site and read the guaranteed analysis without driving to any store. Innova has come out with two lines of reduced fat kibble. Evo -RF (Rduced Fat) has only 15.5% while holding a 52% protien level and their Innova -RF has only 8.5% fat while holding a 18% protein level.

I hope that helps some.

[Nancy]

Thanks that does help about increasing protein without increasing fat.

I read somewhere along the way that a low fat diet should be 8-12 percent or lower. I don't know how accurate that is. So those numbers give me some perspective. How much protein do they need is another question.

My dog is healthy, I'm just trying to learn. BTW, I found a nutrition consult clinic at my local university vet school. I called today but was on hold for an hour and gave up. I'll follow up another day.