Wild Vs. Domestic

[turnerlvv]

OK another thread went off onto this topic so I figured it has the right to have its own thread Lol

So can you compare domestic dogs to wild ones? On the topic of raised food dishes, behavior, etc. What do you guys think?

[poketmouse]

In some areas, I think it is good to consider that dogs are just specialized wolves. It's invaluable when considering behavior and pack mentality. I had such a hard time with "training" dogs in the past to sit, stay, roll over, etc. before I looked at pack metality. Once I started treating dogs like dogs, with me as the pack leader, everything seemed so much easier.

In the other thread, we were talking about reasons for/ways to avoid bloating in dogs. Here, I'm not sure that looking at wolves is very helpful except to point out that it doesn't appear to be a significant problem for dogs in the wild. But since they are so physically different from bloat prone breeds, it doesn't seem too relevant. Now, if we had packs of wild danes, GSD's, etc running around in Yellowstone, and they never had a problem with bloating, then I'd say you've got a good comparison.

[Woof]

I tend to agree with Pocketmouse.

When I say we should compare perhaps I should say compare and contrast. I think it is safe to compare the two populations and then determine what in the comparison is valuable and disgard the rest. I don't think you should throw the puppy out with the bath water.

In regards to raised feeders/ watering bowls I think that domestic breeds are so different from one another let alone wolves, foxes etc. that I think breed specific comparisons are the most valuable if you really want to get down to the gnats eyebrow.

I also trust one of the pet food manufacturers in particular, because their methods and true care for animals. They recomend raised feeders. They also reccomend that their dry kibble be served wet for the sake of reducing the instance of bloat.

[BelovedJuggernaut]

I used to work with an organization that took in & trained exotic animals for education purposes.

A couple of the animals we got in were wolves & foxes. We had a coyote for a short period of time, but he died soon after we got him - really, really old guy.

I think wild dogs are similar in many ways to domestic dogs, but the key thing they are missing is the domestication. All dogs have most a pack mentality, with the exception of foxes & some coyotes, regardless if they are wild.

I am not quite sure how to compare domestic versus wild in regards to raised food dishes, but in my experience behavior is a wildcard in all dogs, expecially wild ones.

As far as raised food dishes with domestic dogs, I think that the key to avoiding bloat is to let them eat naturally - dish on the floor, try to not play heavy for 30 minutes befroe or after a meal, and you are set to go. wild dogs don't eat on raised surfaces, and even though domestic dogs have lost a lot of their wild roots, they have not adapted to eating on raised surfaces. I keep it simple and natural, never had a problem with my dogs.

[DiggityDogs]

wild dogs don't eat on raised surfaces, but their eating habits are completely different from domestic dogs. Most wild dogs only eat once every few days, and i've read that wolves will eat up to 50 lbs of meat at one sitting, completely gorging themsleves because they will not eat for several more days. A hunt is not easy, and not every hunt is successful, so despite the large meals they stay nice and lean. On top of that, they aren't eating dry kibble, so they're not getting all of the air and dry weight in their stomachs- kibble is like a sponge and when you add water it expands to at least twice it's size. Add that to a full belly and you're sure to get bloat. I think the thing that wolves and other wild canines have going for them is natural selection- those that bloat and die don't pass on the genetic predisposition. I'd like to know if there are many documented cases of bloat in wild dogs. Not captive bred wild dogs, but true wild dogs.

Coyotes are notorius for dying from stress in captivity. If they've been born captive they've got a good chance, but wild caught coyotes rarely make it. Thats why it's rare to see them being cross bred like wolves are. In Texas, they're very common, but it's illegal to keep them in captivity without special permits so most zoos do not have them. There are only a couple of places in the whole state that have captive native animals.

I think that dogs have a lot of natural instincts left over from their days in the wild, but most of the wild in them is gone. Thank several aspects of domestic life for that- and I'm not saying that's a bad thing, either. If they weren't different from wild dogs they wouldn't be quite as much fun to have as pets. One of the biggest things I see as a trainer is the complete inability to communicate with other dogs, mostly due to owner ignorance. Owners who don't understand dog behavior are grossed out when their dog wants to sniff another dog's butt, or will correct them for the little rumblings and posturing that, IMO, absolutely must happen for dogs to establish pecking orders. When you start correcting a dog for those kinds of behaviors, you teach him that what is instinctual is wrong, and that creates a lot of neuroses. Lots of dog aggression, mainly due to the fact that they are so scared because of the lack of ability to communicate that they are immediately on the defensive. This type of ownership also creates ultra-dominant dogs, those who thing they own the house. I'm seeing it more and more, and it's all because most owners don't have the sense to see that while it's a domestic dog, it's still an animal, and will still communicate like it's wild relatives. When you learn not to interfere so much with natural behaviors you can have large packs like Cesar's, and you can have a naturally calm, happy dog. Of course there are other things that go into it, but this is the biggest mistake I see people make.
You can also blame it on selective breeding. While they do have these instincts left, a lot of it has been bred out, or in some cases bred in, as in with dogs that are naturally people agressive, or what I call ''psychotic aggressive''. A wild dog still has very intact flight instincts unless cornered, and we see more and more domestic dogs with fight instincts instead. Those that breed true working lines have preserved much of the natural instinct that makes the dog the amazing machine that it is, the scenting ability, hearing, prey drive, pack instinct, etc. While I believe that it's good to know what a dog would naturally be like without human interferance, it's also good to know that you aren't really dealing with a wolf. I think people who think TOO naturally in terms of comparing their dogs to wolves allow their dogs to get away with too much dominant behavior- and those are the clients that I see that tend to refer to their dogs as ''alpha''. Most of them have no clue what a true alpha is, let alone the fact that an alpha position is completely relative to the other dogs in the pack and always temporary. No dog stays an alpha from the day it's born to the day it dies. A true dog pack switches alphas as often as I switch boyfriends
Anyhow.... sorry for all this rambling. I injured my back and am on pain meds. Good ones. It makes it a little hard to make complete thoughts and proper sentences.

[ClarkFarm]

LOL Diggity!

Some excellent points and one hilarious ending note!