Dog park rules

[TxDog]

If two dogs are playing at the park and an aggresive type dog bites your dog do you have any recourse for medical bills?

We have a real small park here in my town and a boxer tore a nice chunk out of my friends small mutt. The mutt was minding his own then the boxer came over and bite him. They were not even playing. The dog was acting aggresively the whole time with other dogs and the owner didn't seem to care.

[Marty]

Heres one I found on (Negligence) It reads....In every jurisdiction, a person is liable for all losses and damages that result from his or her negligence. With certain exceptions, dog owners, people who handle dogs, people who harbor dogs, and everyone else connected in any way with a dog can be held responsible if their negligence causes injuries.

Negligence is usually defined as an unreasonable action, or unreasonable omission to take action or give a warning. An example of an unreasonable action would be a dog owner letting go of his dog's leash when another dog approaches, so that the dogs can "play." An unreasonable omission might be the failure to keep a dog away from guests, where the dog is known to play too roughly and knock people down. When an adult invites a child into the adult's home, the courts of many states say that a "special relationship" exists between that adult and child, requiring the adult to take more precautions than if the guest was an adult.

Another form of negligence is called "negligence per se." It refers to the consequence of breaking a law designed to prevent harm to people. For example, failing to abide by the leash law constitutes negligence per se if, because the dog is unleashed, it causes harm to a person.

The negligent act or omission to act must be the proximate cause of the losses. Proximate cause is a unique legal concept. Basically it means that the harmful result must be closely related to the negligent act or omission. For example, if a dog digs under a fence and gets out and hurts someone, that will be considered the fault of the dog's owner, and that negligence would be considered the proximate cause of the harm inflicted. However, if the dog gets loose and the victim, seeing it running around, decides to walk around the block but gets a heart attack because of the walk, there would be at least a big legal battle over whether the loose dog was the proximate cause of the heart attack.

The victim must be a person to whom the dog owner owes a legal duty. For example, the mother of a child victim who is bitten in the mother's presence is a person to whom a duty is owed. However, the child's best friend who was not a witness to the attack is not owed a duty even though he or she might suffer terrible emotional distress as a direct result of the injuries to the best friend.

The victim's own negligence sometimes is a cause of an accident. Depending on the comparative negligence (or comparative fault) laws in the state whose law applies to that accident, the victim's negligence will hurt or even destroy the possibility of receiving full compensation. For example, if the victim is walking his dog without a leash, and the handler of the attacking dog also is walking her dog without a leash, and the victim is injured trying to keep the dogs from fighting, it is probable that the victim will be held responsible for some part of his own injury. The consequence of such negligence depends on the law of the state where the accident happened:

I would think the same thing would apply to dogs also, but you can read the rest of it here....

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/PAGES/legal_ri.htm#Negligence

Hope this helps some :)

[Miles]

In that case I would seek revenge! Find the meanest dog you can and throw it into the boxer's yard... Just joking... I believe you could take the owner to small claims court, but I believe a police report should have been filed at the time of the incident.

[Miakoda]

The term "dog park" is also synonymous with the term "lawsuit city". I feel that anyone who takes their dog to the dogpark is responsible for whatever happens while on that property. I am NOT a fan of letting tens of dogs off leash to run around with no control. It doesn't matter the breed. It's not a good idea, nor a safe one, & at least once a day in all the parks someone's dog will be bitten and/or attacked. And although it might in fact be the other dogs' fault, you are just as responsible for allowing your dog off leash & out of your control.

Sorry if you don't like my opinion, but that's just how I see. it. Not all dogs get along, & nothing we humans will/can ever do will change that. But as reponsible owners we are supposed to keep our dogs under our control at all times & this cannot be done at off-leash dog parks. Thereby, everyone is at fault for whatever may happen.

[TxDog]

Yea he should have called the police because the vet bills have been bad. The guy took off right after it happened too and we haven't seen him back.

[suki]

I am not a fan of dog parks, either. Too many variables, if you will=too much can go wrong. And, if you go to them, should you have "reasonable expectation" that all will go well, and if it doesn't, then what??? He said, she said??? Also, are the rules and regulations different from city to city, and state to state????
A little sticky for my taste...

[DiggityDogs]

I have mixed emotions about the dog park- I'm in texas, too, and we have several dog parks here in Dallas. My doberman loves it and it's great exersize, but how do you tell who started a fight? Most of the dogs are yards away from their owners, and each one of them will claim that their dog was minding his own business. You can't expect that your dog, who's never bitten another dog or started a fight, never will. I go on a semi- regular basis and watch my dog pretty closely, but I'm always worried about it. In Texas you're responsible for your dog biting someone or someone else's dog purely by owning it, regardless of the circumstances, but how do you decide whos dog bit first? Or, worse yet, if there's a tangle of 5 or 10 dogs, how do you decide who bit who? I think if you're going to take the risk to go to the dog park, you should be prepared to face the costs of your dog being injured, but I do think it's crappy. This is why we go to the dog park on weekdays when there are few or no other people there.

[TxDog]

I understand that. Last time I brought my dog there was too many large dogs and one pitbull kept bugging my dog. The owner tried to stop it but he didn't try to hard so we had to leave. The one here in San Marcos seems to be a haven for pit bulls and boxers.

[ZenTrainer]

I think dog parks are like public swimming pools with no life guard.
Trish King says they are like cocktail parties where everyone is drunk and you don't know anyone. Might be a good time, might not.
Most are poorly designed as well.
I have heard of cities where there are docents who keep control.
Here there are certain groups of people who will kick a dog out for being too rough. My students do a lot of this because we have 30 minutes of playtime in each class and I focus on body language and communication not so much on sit or stay. So many of them get pretty good at reading dogs.
There do need to be rules. No cell phones for one thing. Everyone has to be watching their dog.
I still encourage playdates instead.
I also just had to tell a client whose GSD was attacked by a Staffordshire Terrior that because the Terrior was hurt and his dog wasn't he really needed to pay the vet bill. It doesn't matter who started it, his GSD hurt the Terrior and didn't have to.
My peacekeeper dogs can stop a fight without anyone getting hurt.
It doesn't seem fair but it is the polite thing to do.
I have been waiting for someone to sue the city. I think that is what will happen eventually.
We do have a dog court here. We have a great mediator. Sometimes when I have to go to testify I am just amazed at some of the owners. They are the Little League Parents. There dog can do no wrong and they'll beat anyone up who says otherwise! LOL!
The laws probably differ everywhere.
If your dog hurts someone at YOUR house it's covered by your homeowners insurance. I don't know if that is the same when your dog is out and about.
In most states you can only sue for the price of the dog.
IN TN, thanks to this great senator we have you get that plus up to $4,000 for anguish and grief.
I just did a whole hour on my radio show about dog parks. It finally hit me *duh*, that whether I like them or not, people are going to go so what I can do to help is teach them how to keep their dog safe at the park and make it a positive experience.

[DiggityDogs]

The cool thing about our parks in dallas is that there's a separate fenced park altogher for dogs under 30 pounds. It's right next to the big dog park, but it's so cool because it's always full of dachsies and bostons and such. I have a chihuahua mix that really enjoys it there, too, although he was an adult when I got him and quite antisocial so I've been doing a lot of work with him to get him to the point that he'd enjoy being around that many people, let alone the dogs!

Shiner is a cutie! here's my chi mix....

http://www.discussdogs.com/gallery/files/1/0/8/wee.jpg

[Dogwise]

I think dog parks are like public swimming pools with no life guard.
Trish King says they are like cocktail parties where everyone is drunk and you don't know anyone. Might be a good time, might not.

I agree with you here about dog parks, and IMO they are a dangerous place for anyone to take their dogs. It's not a matter of if another dog will harm yours, it's a matter of when. Is the risk worth it to you? Now if you insist on going to one, find one that's not fenced in. Why you ask? Because most dogs that have issues won't stay with nor pay attention to their owners, so they tend not to take them to open dog parks.

Zen, I'm not trying to insult you here, but I must ask, if you are a professional why do you fill the need to always quote others. Are you not confident in your own thoughts, findings and methods? I personally could careless what many so called trainers or behaviorist say. I have saved the lives of to many dogs where other "professionals" had claimed there was no saving them.

[SiNNiK]

I also just had to tell a client whose GSD was attacked by a Staffordshire Terrior that because the Terrior was hurt and his dog wasn't he really needed to pay the vet bill. It doesn't matter who started it, his GSD hurt the Terrior and didn't have to.
what? i wonder what that train of thought would sound like applied to humans. let's suppose a woman is being assaulted on the street by a thug, and just before something terrible happened to the woman, she kicked him in the testicles and he is injured and unable to carry on with the attack.

now by your reasoning, she'd be a fault for defending herself, and required to pay restitution or compensation because he got hurt and she didn't.

it'd be laughable if it wasn't so stupid. no, beyond stupid, it's imbecilic.

i'd be interested in knowing how the GSD owner responded to this absurd advice. it's horrible to know that someone named "ZenTrainer" is out there somewhere giving their obtuse and thickheaded opinions, and worse yet, training kids to think along the same lines.

[Patch O' Pits]

The term "dog park" is also synonymous with the term "lawsuit city". I feel that anyone who takes their dog to the dogpark is responsible for whatever happens while on that property. I am NOT a fan of letting tens of dogs off leash to run around with no control. It doesn't matter the breed. It's not a good idea, nor a safe one, & at least once a day in all the parks someone's dog will be bitten and/or attacked. And although it might in fact be the other dogs' fault, you are just as responsible for allowing your dog off leash & out of your control.

Sorry if you don't like my opinion, but that's just how I see. it. Not all dogs get along, & nothing we humans will/can ever do will change that. But as reponsible owners we are supposed to keep our dogs under our control at all times & this cannot be done at off-leash dog parks. Thereby, everyone is at fault for whatever may happen.


I agree. It is unfortuntalte that your friends dog was bitten, but both parties are at fault IMO.

I actually have a clause in my puppy contracts that states the pups can NOT be taken to off lead dog parks, and I make sure the owners fully undertand and accept the reasons why before placing a puppy

[DiggityDogs]

.
i'd be interested in knowing how the GSD owner responded to this absurd advice. it's horrible to know that someone named "ZenTrainer" is out there somewhere giving their obtuse and thickheaded opinions, and worse yet, training kids to think along the same lines.

I think we ran 'zentrainer' off a LONG time ago... LOL... too many thickheaded opinions. However- I hear she has a radio show giving dog advice out of nashville, so the public will not be deprived of her since she's not on the board any more...

[SiNNiK]

thanks Diggity.

[ClarkFarm]

The majority of dog parks have signs stating that all owners are at risk for possible injury. The "enter at your own risk" and several other variations are usually posted. But though the possibility of harm is bluntly made clear to the entering owner, most parks fail to mention just who should be held responsible for any damage caused by a dog(s). Just as mentioned before, it can be difficult to prove your dog was innocent of causing or instigating any fight. Some judges have ruled that the "enter at your own risk" sign released the opposing party to pay for any damages while others still base their case on the information presented, which are not always facts but individual person's opinions.

I have seen a few dog parks that had so many rules posted (and for good cause) but were only read by maybe 2 people out of 2 dozen.
I think it is to be realized that by allowing your dog to run loose with strange dogs is to accept the risk of harm. And that is a scary notion because I was at a local dog park here and saw one very dog aggressive rottweiler running free within the fence. The owner just did not care and most other dog owners simply left.

[TxDog]

You would hope that people that are going to a dog park have some control over their dogs and their dogs are socialized somewhat.

From my experience in my town so far I find this to be very untrue. People seem to bring their dogs there with no social skills and end up in fights. 9 out of 10 times these are Pit Bulls and Boxers.

[cec]

I have been very pleased with our town's dog park--it is probably not as large as some that you all describe--I find that a large number of the owners are tending to their dogs, and are respectful of others. I know I pay attention to my dogs, and if I see a potential problem, I intervene with my dogs. My beagle mix needs a place to run, and sniff, and just be a beagle! If we didn't venture to the park, I think he would be a very unhappy boy! I say the dog park is like any other area of pet ownership--responsibility is key.

[Marty]

Did you say dog park? A post from another site :)

More often than they should, pit bull owners wonder about the dog park issue, finding themselves explaining to others that their dog is not a "killing machine," it is not "one of those pit bulls" and there is no reason that their dog can’t enjoy off leash time with unknown dogs. Some will even insist that "you only add to the misconception toward this breed when you don't allow your friendly pit bull to go to the dog park.” After all, these people argue that it is all about "how we raise them" and providing socialization is the key to no problem dogs. Unfortunately, that’s not true.

Dog aggression in our own dogs should not be a problem. Good management and knowledge prevent trouble. Responsible and caring pit bull owners have done their homework and know what to expect from the breed. This breed's genetic traits involve dog aggression, to varying degrees. Even the most well socialized pit bull can one day decide that other dogs are not play buddies. It happens most often when the dog reaches maturity between two and three years of age, and it can happen without apparent reason.

Here are some good articles for basic breed information:

http://www.pbrc.net/breedinfo.html
http://www.realpitbull.com/fight.html

Because of the breed's background, it is unfair to expect dogs to behave the way we want them to when it comes to dog aggression and dog to dog relationships. We set our dogs up for failure when we decide to let them off leash in a public place and allow them to romp with other dogs. Dog parks are a place where people like to chit chat with each other, paying very little attention to what happens around their dogs. Posturing, body language, subtle looks and even vocalization are often misunderstood or overlooked by dog owners. Even when dogs let us know what is about to happen we might not see what is happening until it is too late. Most dog owners have no idea of what body language means, and don’t know how to intervene if things go wrong. They panic, scream, yell, and hit the attacking dog; all of which often just makes things worse. A fight between two dogs can be hard enough to stop; now imagine a fight among 4 or 5 of them. In fights like these, pets and even people can be seriously injured.

Dog parks are also a place where unknown dogs are present. We don't know if they’re fully vaccinated or in good health. They can be sick and our dogs can get ill as well.

We don't know if they are truly friendly dogs or if they may be aggressive. Everybody's dog is friendly, according to their owners. When the "friendly" dog decides to snap at ours, a fight starts.

Who is going to be blamed for that fight? Will it be the pit bull or the cute little fluffy dog? The answer is obvious.

Here is the story of one accident at a dog park, involving a pit bull.:

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/dogpark.cfm

Below is an article about a pit bull named Nettie that attacked a police horse, in San Francisco, in 2003. Nettie was let off leash at a public park by her irresponsible owner. The dog did nothing wrong, but she was set up for failure by the person who should have protected her. Nettie belonged to an SPCA volunteer and she was often taken to senior centers to comfort the elderly. Nettie was a good dog. This pretty pit bull female paid the price for her owner’s ignorance and irresponsibility with her life. Many dogs have lost their lives the same way, due to the same kind of irresponsibility. It took her life for her owner to "get it.” Like most situations of this sort, the events that ultimately resulted in Nettie’s unfair death were totally preventable.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/11/23/horse23.DTL


Each time a pit bull is allowed to harm another pet all pit bull owners and their dogs suffer. One common defensive reaction of dog park lovers is "the dog is mine and it is nobody's business where I take it.” This is not true. It is every pit bull owner's business as well. We are surrounded by BSL (Breed Specific Legislation) all over the Country. The news media report dog to dog attacks or dog to cat/cow/horse/sheep attacks almost every day, and with the same attention as if Osama Bin Laden had been captured. Reporters often compare human aggression to animal aggression. How many times do we hear "it was a dog but it could have been a child"?

It is ridiculous but it happens every day. “There goes another vicious pit bull attacking an innocent dog or cat!” What happens after a pit bull attacks another dog in the neighborhood or at the local dog park? It is like we suddenly own wild animals that have no right to exist. Our friendly neighbor suddenly stops talking to us and no longer lets her children come around our dog. The person we used to walk our dog with is no longer available because she fears for her pet. The two men down the street no longer come and pet our dog when we walk by their homes or rush into the house if they have their dogs with them. People ask for a ban. We did not change and our dog is the same as always but this is the result of one mistake, caused by someone who obviously did not care about the rest of us. It is a sad situation to be in.

This breed doesn't need any more accidents, we can't afford them. We are in this situation thank to those who failed their own dogs. When a whole breed suffers because of someone's action it is our business as well. No doubt on that.

Vet bills aren't cheap, emotions can be overwhelming, the guilt stays, so why to risk it? It isn't fair that only one breed is targeted when dogs of other breeds have killed or attacked other dogs. Today, a dog behaving like a dog has become a sin. Fair or not that is how the situation is and every pit bull owner needs to understand it.

The point of socialization is for a dog to have positive experiences with other dogs. When people take their dogs, perhaps puppies, to a park and something happens, they are responsible for the consequences. A young dog that is attacked for no reason won't be so willing to be friendly the next time it meets an unknown dog. An experience like that is a bad start and can often lead to problems in the future. There are no guarantees on what can happen at a dog park because dog parks are often full of different dogs with different personalities and tolerance levels. Even an easy going adult dog can change its approach after an attack. It is hard enough for a dog of this breed to tolerate other dogs and it is a big mistake to contribute to bad experiences. Dogs should always rely on us to defend them--the trust factor is important. We are responsible for protecting our dogs from harm. A dog that has no choice but to defend itself loses its trust in the owner and knows that in the future it needs to take care of itself. It then becomes fearful of other dogs and not so willing to behave like a well-balanced dog that was socialized in the appropriate way.

How can we socialize around other dogs then? Good question. Socialization is a must but it has to be done with common sense and in a controlled environment. Perhaps a friend has a mellow dog of the opposite sex and he/she is willing to let the dogs play together. Both owners should know that there is the possibility of a scrap and will intervene immediately and with the appropriate tools/techniques. Both owners will watch their dogs closely and never leave them unsupervised.

Every pit bull owner should have a breaking stick available, even when on a walk, hidden somewhere. It is a quick and effective way to break a hold.

What is a breaking stick and why it is an important tool to have:
http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

Some information on how to break up a fight:
http://www.pbrc.net/breakfight.html

Obedience classes are an option too. In obedience classes, the dogs are leashed and can learn to control themselves in the presence of other dogs. It is not necessary for a pit bull to be dog friendly, but it is necessary for us to help them learn to control natural behaviors. Dogs that are exposed to this kind of environment can learn to behave with some time and work.

The local feedstore/petstore is another way to socialize our dogs, because they are another place where dogs are leashed. It’s important to remember that it doesn’t mean we don't need to pay attention to the surroundings. Respect the comfort level of your dog and move away from other dogs if necessary. Face to face interactions can quickly end badly, even when both dogs are leashed.

Those who are still convinced that a pit bull belongs to a dog park would benefit from reading these links. Their dogs and all of us will benefit as well.Please, don't set your dog up for failure.

http://www.pbrc.net/dogpark.html
http://www.pitbullpress.com/ARTICLES/DOGPARK.html

http://reddawg.smugmug.com/photos/94721120-M.jpg
(crossposted with permission)

[DoggyMom]

I bring my dog to a nearby dog park. I haven't had any problems so far, but I tend to bring my dog when there are no other dogs there, or on occasion when a neighbor or someone I know is there. That is the only time I allow my dog to even play in the park. When I first got Lily, I brought her to a dog park near my old apartment. There were several dogs there that had shock collars (which I am completely against the use of). Needless to say, one of these dogs decided that Lily would make a tasty snack (she was about 16 weeks old at the time). The other owner just kept pressing his shock collar control and hollering at his dog to leave Lily alone. His dog was a German Sheapard mix, and he just kept attacking Lily. I could managed to (and got injured myself doing so) get his jaw open and off of Lily's throat, where he had managed to get a good grip to shake her like a rag doll. Once I managed to pick up Lily, his darn dog decided to attack ME! And the whole time, he sat on a bench and did nothing but press the shock button on his damn remote! The authorities were called, and everyone was questioned. I did have to end up taking the man to court, being as Lily's throat was nearly torn to shreds, luckily she did survive it the vet said, and surgery was done to repair everything. All in all, the costs were extravagant (which I was able to get back, only after suing the man).
So now, like I said in the beginning of the post, I do take Lily to the dog park, but only if there is no other dogs there or maybe one or two that I know the owners very well. If taking her to the dog park (which is completely fenced) is not an option, she gets to go to the nearby high school that has an enclosed field where she can run by herself. I tend not to trust most other dogs and owners after that one time incident, and I think that is sad that one owner managed to ruin the dog park experience for us.

[canvasjockey]

I agree, Dog Parks are accidents waiting to happen. I tried taking our then 9 month mix, SC, to the dog park for awhile. He's smallish, at the time about 22lbs though a lanky, tall dog for his weight. After a quickly aborted romp in the small dog (under 30 lb) enclosure when he proceeded to jump all over some poor Yorkies, we switched him to the big dog area.

He had loads of fun, and handled most dogs of all sizes very well. A couple times there would be a dog there that would just seem to decide that my dog was a rag doll to be played with roughly, or just want to beat him up. The owner would keep intervening, but their dog would pursue mine again everytime it was released. If any dog of mine had done that, I would have packed him up and left.

The only reason we made these visits is because we were housesitting my parents Cockapoo - and SC was relentlessly trying to play with her non stop. She was miserable, and clearly wanted nothing to do with him - so off to the dog park for 30 min and he'd be too exhausted to mess with her. When she went home we stopped bringing him.

I agree with the article above... I interact with lots of dogs daily at work, and I know how wonderful PB's can be. They aren't even near the top of the list of the breeds that inspire trepidation when entering an exam room. But I am increasingly frustrated with owners that don't respect their dogs limits. In a way, fair or not, the owners are the ones that can save this breed's reputation by doing their best to not allow Pit's to get into trouble, even if it's not their fault. There are too many owners (and some are clients at our clinic - my tongue is riddled with bite marks) who are on a path to confirm the stereotypes.

I don't bring my 8 yr old Rottie to the dog park because I'm fairly certain she wouldn't behave well. She's shown a occasional dislike for certain dogs, and is a grumpy, arthritic old gal. Even when she was younger, I never would have felt comfortable turning her loose with random dogs, so I never have. I also put her in her run when new people come by our house, she's usually a lover but has reacted oddly to some people. Better safe than sorry.

Now family members who used to be wary of her think of her as a wonderful, well behaved dog - because I've always tried to remove her from any situations where she could cause any problems. The funny thing is we used to get critisized by freinds and family (who know nothing about dogs) for being so restrictive of her. I'm glad I trusted my instincts.

[BelovedJuggernaut]

I think I agree with most of you who say that Dog Parks are an accident waiting to happen.

Some owners are just careless and don't properly socialize their dog, and that ruins it for everyone.


At our local DP, we post flyers for new dog owners and try to have groups of size compatible dogs meet for first meetings and they eventually have all dog playdates in groups. It generally works out pretty well, considering the time spent socializing and having responsable owners willing to take the time to socialize.

It also makes other owners at the park ask questions and try to join in so all dogs at the park can get to know each other and play nice, also educates the new owner to the importance of socialization....